Asking for Jim Ryun's 300m Split in his 3'33.1 WR

Sub 4 1500. wrote:

Thanks for posting those splits. Makes me wonder what a guy with Ryun's talent would do with today's training, shoes and tracks. I always thought Morceli was the last of the, eh, un-aided record setters, as he didn't look fresh as a daisy after a WR like almost every WR setter has appeared the last 12 years or so.

I agree with the poster above. By the way, if you want the dictionary definition of "fresh as a daisy" take a look at Ryun's 3:51.1 or Coe's 3:49. They looked like they'd just come in from a stroll in the park.

there is no doubt, that Ryun could have run 3:49 on either of his 2, 3:51 miles in '66 and '67 or his 3:52 of 1972 if you look at the races and consider that there were no pacers and esp. in the 3:51.1 race, considering how slow the 1st 1/2 was. I've talked to Jim about this before, (years ago) and he was very modest about it and was happy for the career that he did enjoy. What a guy!

To play devil's advocate for a moment... Just wondering if anyone has ever considered that Ryan was much better accelerating off a slow pace to ran a very quick 1500m/mile with an exceptionally quick last 1200m and in a more sustained 1500m pace would not have ran a great deal quicker.

This point is possible as sometimes a slow first 30s to a race can serve as a gentle warm up and have a startling effect by avoiding the sudden lactic surge that can occur in a race that is ran flat out all the way.

Still fantastic achievements and not meant to be knocking the guy but just putting a different perspective into the debate

Maybe. But look at his 3:51.3. I think it was Wade Bell that took him through the 800m in 1:55 (with some help from Richard Romo of Texas) and then dad ran almost the last 880 on his own. I think maybe I've mentioned this on the board before, but I still distinctly remember sitting with Ken Popejoy in the stands at Iffley Road Stadium in 1994 and him telling me, "Your dad could have gone a lot faster, it's just that none of us could help him past 880. I always thought that if he'd had someone to drag him through the 3/4s under 2:50, he could have closed well under 60 seconds. The fact was, though, that none of us could even run a 3/4s that fast."

Bottom line: Jim Ryun, if on today's tracks, with rabbits, in a time trial race that El G and Morceli were so good at, in the shape that he was in in 1966-67, could have been well under 3:50.

Couldn't agree more. Given the conditions you laid out in the last paragraph, he was in at least 3:47 flat shape in 1967.

There can't be two guys who were more before their time than Jim Ryun and Gerry Lindgren in the period between 1965 and 1967. The opportunity to fully exploit their massive training regimens never totally presented itself. Remembering that Ryun was only 25 in Munich when he fell and that the world's athletics power structure did not allow him to earn enough money for his family from strictly running is extremely sad in retrospect.

It is hard to believe. Look at Webb, Ritz and Hall-all around 24 years old and we consider them near the start of their big time international careers. At 25, dad was an old man in 1972.

Old Tymer-3:47-48 sounds about right. I just remember how in awe Popejoy was of dad. He just went on and on about what a beast dad was in his prime.

drewr wrote:

It is hard to believe. Look at Webb, Ritz and Hall-all around 24 years old and we consider them near the start of their big time international careers. At 25, dad was an old man in 1972.

Old Tymer-3:47-48 sounds about right. I just remember how in awe Popejoy was of dad. He just went on and on about what a beast dad was in his prime.

It is remarkable how our perception of age has changed. The '68 Olympics was the first I paid attention to--as a teenager. I remember thinking that there was no way that the "ancient" Al Oerter (who, I think, was 32) could possibly win. He did, of course. By that measure, if your dad was running under today's conditions (with the professional incentive to continue), he could easily have run in 1976 (age 29).

"A beast" for sure! When he was "on" no one in the world was remotely in his league.

Age perception? Haha yeah....L.A., 1984 a 37 y. old wins the marathon!

"A beast" for sure! When he was "on" no one in the world was remotely in his league"

Such a tragedy for J.R for his 1500 m in Munich 1972....among other things of course.