• trident
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 11:25AM - in reply to you're on crack
      • trident
      • [quote]you're on crack wrote:
        Well, what a coincidence... Dathan is trying to break an American record and is also being smart, staying focused on the Oly. marathon trials this fall.

        Oh snap!


        [quote]


        Ritz isn't running Olympic Marathon Trials...

        oh...snap!?
    • Having been to Kenya...
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 11:42AM - in reply to 1500
      • Having been to Kenya...
      • I have never posted on this board before, but I feel like I have to say something here. Most of you guys seem pretty clueless about Kenya - your attitude, as far as I can tell, is that it is an African nation, and therefore it must be too dangerous/infectious/Islamic for any Americans to be safe there.

        Well, I've actually been to Kenya. Several times. I have some friends from Kenya (Nairobi, but they've been to Mombasa). I used to live in a far more malarial region of Africa - the Nigerian coastal region.

        And guess what? I took some pills and never got sick with malaria. The shots that I had to get didn't incapacitate me. I just had to repeat a bunch of them for travel to Latin America - no sickness.

        Furthermore, claims that Kenya is a violent place filled with terrorists are absurd. Things might have changed slightly in the last few years, but when I went there safety was not a concern, as long as you didn't do anything stupid.

        What I'm saying boils down to this: Kenya is not a destination so horrible as to be dangerous to our top distance runners. (Barring freak occurances - but the U.S. is not perfectly safe either.) And for another thing, we're looking at a free trip to Kenya here. It's an awesome travel destination (for the wildlife if nothing else), and I can't see why anybody would turn that down.
    • disappointed
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 11:53AM - in reply to wejo
      • disappointed
      • Top US distance runners are satisfied to do well at a national level but they become like deer in the headlights on the world stage. This was a chance for them to get past that and actually try their stuff against the world. Instead, they decide to chase some obscure national-class road record. That's fine, I suppose, but now they are self-defining as national class as opposed to World Class. This is the day-to-day mechanics of why the US is a joke on the world stage. They won't even step into the fray, let alone show what it takes to excell in it.

        Congrats to our fine crop of national class runners. They'll come to this web site to learn how the big boys ran at worlds...
    • Wejo don't know
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 11:59AM - in reply to wejo
      • Wejo don't know
      • Wejo - You're entitled to your opinions, but perhaps you should check your facts a bit more before accusing athletes of chasing money instead of running World XC.

        The New York Road Runners don't pay appearance fees for the USATF 8K.
    • Hillrunner32
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:00PM - in reply to trident
      • Hillrunner32
      • trident wrote:
        [quote]you're on crack wrote:
        Well, what a coincidence... Dathan is trying to break an American record and is also being smart, staying focused on the Oly. marathon trials this fall.

        Oh snap!


        [quote]


        Ritz isn't running Olympic Marathon Trials...

        oh...snap!?
        I thought Ritz was planning on running the Olympic Marathon Trials??
    • newburg
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:01PM - in reply to wejo
      • newburg
      • Back in the late 1960s when women were first running World XC Championships the US team members actually had to pay their own way to Europe to compete. Why in the hell would they do that? Because they loved to run and compete against the best in the world, that's why. And Doris Brown was the best in the world and worked harder than anyone, male or female. Today guys like Ritz only love the lifestyle and going around acting like they're hot stuff, but do they love to compete, love it enough to pay their own way to Europe? No way. It's been too easy for them up to now and they'll never make it to the very top. Sure they're good athletes and put in some effort, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to have it easy and make big money, just don't hero worship these guys because they don't deserve it. Who are the heros today? Well, some of the Kenyans who come over here and run road races every week and live however they can and sleep wherever they can, all to earn enough to eventually return home and provide a good life for their families, those guys are heros to me.
    • wejo
      co-founder
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:05PM - in reply to DTOM
      • wejo
        co-founder
      • DTOM wrote:
        It doesn't matter how much the NYRRC promotes the 8k.
        The U.S. viewing public isn't into running, never will be.
        The U.S. viewing public has the attention span for the 100m and the up-close and personal bs that goes along with it.

        Yeah, there will be an article about it in the NY Slime,
        but so what. Do you actually think NBC will show entire heats of the womens 5k from Beijing? I don't think so.
        But you do get coverage like that in Europe. I've watched it.

        As far as Ritz getting $100k to run the NYC marathon,
        until I see the cancelled check, I won't believe it.
        The NYRRC doesn't dole out the kind of bread.
        Generally I stay away from this type of speculation, but I've heard from at least 5 credible sources that Ritz got well into 6 figures (yes more than $100,000) to run NY. Originally I heard a quarter million but I don't think he got that much. Yes that is more than the first place prize in NY but that is how the sport of marathoning works. London, the richest marathon in the world, I believe gives only $60,000 to first place The money in marathoning is in appearance fees. I think our sport might have more credibility with the public at large if the money was all on the table but that is a different matter (ie if the public saw the winner getting $500,000 instead of $60,000). Races want the top stars, the top stars can only run 2 marathons a year, and are risk averse. To change the system we would have to go to rewarding the actual performance instead of the past performance. But the incentive would still exist for another marathon to pay an appearance fee to get a top star. That is why the PGA and USTA (tennis) all do not allow appearance fees to be paid in the US. Until such a rule is put in place by the IAAF things will not change. USATF could easily put in such a rule for US Championships.

        Having said that, with Ritz getting 6 figures for NY I do realize a few thousand dollars will not influence him as much. However it does create a lot of goodwill with the NYRR and Ritz. I think money is only tangential with Ritz's decision to run the 8k, but the date does seem to create problems. Most guy don't want to run a hard 8k a week before the Worlds. If Ritz because of his fitness, the weather, the security climate, having to face 36 Kenyans, Ethiopians, Ugandans and Qataris in 1 race, or whatever it is is thinking about skipping world cross, the 8k a week before soon becomes a viable alternative.
    • NY runner
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:11PM - in reply to 6 figures+
      • NY runner
      • Its alot of $ for an 8k in central park. I would bet that its more than the money for the 5k champs in Providence and 20k champs in New Haven. So yes realitively speaking.

        Marathons pay out more you can't compare an 8k that wasn't contested last year w/ a world major marathon.

        looks like just some more hype for OT trials, which shouldn't be in NYC in the first place.

        Its also interesting that the 5k and 20k USATF championships were open to the public as part of larger race. However this 8k is not. I believe that the 10k and 15k and 25k champs are a similar setup to the 5 & 20k and not the 8k.

        No respectable record will be set in central park no matter how you run the course it is too hilly.

        https://www.letsrun.com/forum/f...ad=1770861

        6 figures+ wrote:

        You think that is a lot of money? Ritz got 6 figures (yes that means a minimum of $100,000 I heard it was much more) to run the NYC marathon last year. I have no idea what they pay him to run the 8k but subconsciously that could tip the scales for Ritz.
    • runnerchic9
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:29PM - in reply to NY runner
      • runnerchic9
      • I don't understand why it's such a big deal that Ritz is skipping Worlds when Goucher, Culpepper, and Torres are as well???

        Maybe Ritz doesn't want to take any chances this year--he's struggled the past few years, you know--maybe he doesn't want to risk getting sick and having his training be hindered for weeks, right when he's really running well again. Give the guy a break.

        You think Ritz doesn't love to run as much as Doris Brown?!?! The fact is, he doesn't have to pay his way anywhere, so he can choose where he's going to race based on what's the best choice for his running career; not in terms of money, but in terms of performance, now and for the rest of the year. Brown didn't have that luxury. Going over to another country, whether it's Kenya or not, right at the beginning of the outdoor track season to run a race with none of his other peers on the US XC scene and probably get his ass kicked, doesn't sound like a fun idea to me or a good decision. Sounds like a waste of time. It's unfortunate that we're at that point in the US with regards to World XC, but that is not Ritz's fault.

        If he had chosen to go to World XC, a lot of people would probably be saying he was running from the competition at the 8K. Give the guy a break.
    • DTOM
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 12:55PM - in reply to wejo
      • DTOM
      • The big marathon dogs like Tergat, KK, Geb et al are able to command big six figure appearance fees, but Ritz?
        I still don't believe it. The NYRRC has paid appearance fees, but not on par with Chicago or London, and not a lot to Americans. They're a very profitable non-profit organization for a reason.

        His doing the 8k might be a payback to the NYRRC for whatever appearance fee he got (and an ammends for running 2:14).
    • Made__82
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:01PM - in reply to DTOM
      • Made__82
      • as much as i hate to say it..if an anglo-american could win a major marathon..he would be good for marketing...
    • yep..............
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:01PM - in reply to 3rd
      • yep..............
      • 3rd wrote:
        Say Ritz went to worlds and got malaria. His season would be over.
        Plus the plane could crash. But since he's avoiding these possibilities everyone's bashing him.
    • My .02
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:04PM - in reply to DTOM
      • My .02
      • I posted this on another thread but think it also has a place here...

        Actually, Boulder 2007 was NOT a sham! I was there, saw great races and had a great time. I think most people who were there would also agree. However, in my opinion, the problem with the lack of participation in the World XC Championships is mostly about money(i.e. big contracts, appearance fees, bonuses, etc)...and it shouldn't be! I bet that if the runners who qualified went to Kenya and missed out on other racing/income opportunities, their income for 2007 would still be more than most people on letsrun.com and the other athletes at the World XC Championships.

        Elite runners might think I am CrAzy with this next comment...I believe any National or World Championship, Olympic Trials or Olympics should NOT have ANY prize money or bonuses involved. Those competitions are tremendous opportunities in which you can showcase your talent, represent yourself, your family, and ultimately your country. That should be enough of a reason to participate!! Big contracts and money have ultimately controlled the minds of our nations best runners...that is sad.

        So, for next years National XC Championships...host it at another great venue, offer NO prize money, and ensure that those runners who qualify must compete at the World XC Championships. You might not have the big names show up but atleast you will have runners there who are willing to compete against the best in the world.
    • nuge
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:07PM - in reply to DTOM
      • nuge
      • i think it is always a slippery slope when you comment on the races another chooses to run.

        as a top level racer, you have to believe in your program, and stay focused on your ultimate goal.

        though a race in kenya against the worlds best may seem an experience unmatched to many, it may sound like a two week dent in training to others.

        ritz seems a pretty focused young man, who races well when he chooses.

        this is hardly an indictment of us distance running/runners.

        this is just a guy's choice.
    • Buddy Boy
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:07PM - in reply to yep..............
      • Buddy Boy
      • This probably would have been excellent preparation for running in Beijing. A trip halfway around the world to a foreign country/climate, possibility of foodborne illness increased, jet lag issues, heat, etc, etc, etc....what a great primer/preparation for what might be faced in 2008. They could have experimented to see what works (or doesn't) when dealing with these issues and facing a world-class field.

        Instead, they'll run an 8k in NYC. Makes sense to me.
    • ttc
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:10PM - in reply to wejo
      • ttc
      • wejo wrote:
        I've heard from at least 5 credible sources that Ritz got well into 6 figures (yes more than $100,000) to run NY.
        I think this should end any Ritz-bashing. You just can't turn that down.
    • may be I am dum???
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:17PM - in reply to Buddy Boy
      • may be I am dum???
      • I don't get it??? Why would you race the World XC Championship qualifying race, knowing that you have a good chance to make the team, and back out after qualifying??? Dathan/Nike...any explanations???
    • Ol' Grumpus
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:41PM - in reply to ttc
      • Ol' Grumpus
      • ttc wrote:

        wejo wrote:
        I've heard from at least 5 credible sources that Ritz got well into 6 figures (yes more than $100,000) to run NY.
        I think this should end any Ritz-bashing. You just can't turn that down.
        That was for the marathon--not the 8k.
    • I Know These Things to be True
      • RE: Ritz out of World Cross to Run US 8k Champs Instead 2/20/2007 1:44PM - in reply to may be I am dum???
      • I Know These Things to be True
      • Ritz is nothing! The other listed Americans skipping Mombasa are also nothing. They cannot compete with the world's best and will get no medals in Beijing. Good! For they do not deserve them. I no longer give a rat's ass about American distance running and will continue to follow and cheer the world's best no matter where they come from.

        The excuses for skipping world XC are ridiculous. You stand a better chance of being violently killed during Mardi Gras in New Orleans or getting Hep C at a Taco Bell than by going to Mombasa.

        Thank goodness baseball season is starting soon. They may be fat and juiced but at least you will never hear something like this:

        ESPN Guy: "The Yankees come to town this weekend. Are you looking forward to testing your stuff against that powerful lineup?"

        Pitcher: "Uhhh...actually I will skip my scheduled start on Saturday because I am looking to ring up 13-14 strikeouts and a win on the Royals next Wednesday. It's a good opportunity to pad my stats. Gotta stay fresh in case we make the playoffs and face New York in October."

        ESPN Guy: "You do realize it's only April and we're only 15 games into the season?"

        Screw American distance running!