oh you mothertruckers, that was the 100th post. this thread is pretty slow. where are the ou guys?
oh you mothertruckers, that was the 100th post. this thread is pretty slow. where are the ou guys?
Only to someone with a huge sense of entitlement. If the D3 schools in Ohio get runners then doubtlessly Ohio U would get runners with little more than a roster spot to offer. Your imagination won't give them pause, they aren't scabs they're taking opportunities that the spoiled won't.
Great, but what of it? Why would news crews there to cover what's going on down on the field during practice turn their cameras and microphones away from that for even a single second? Their bosses sent them there for an express purpose, they aren't out to be reprimanded over some unhappy skinny boys with an axe to grind. War protests don't even get coverage, what makes you think something this trifling would warrant notice from the newsmedia?
If you don't do anything for the organizations (dues $) then why would they do anything for you? Advertise and lobby with what, money from their own pockets? You have an extremely naive view of the world, it's clear.
Except that neither has anything to do with the other.
again, calm your tone, this is just waxing ideas. no need to get so excited.
in order:
first point: boycotts rely on optional participation. i know that. some work, some don't. all i'm doing is ASKING if people think it could work or how hard it would be to make it work. it's just a question, or a half-baked suggestion. you're giving your answer. now just relax while you type and this will be more enjoyable.
second point: it's not big news, but it's novel news. that might get it some attention. some random reporter who is there to comment on football practice maybe didn't get into the broadcasting to cover a crap football team, maybe they'll see the picket as newsworthy. pickets where you don't expect them might get some attention. maybe. i don't know, neither do you.
third point: alumni give. maybe track alums would give to offer people the opportunities they had in track, rather than offer people the opportunity to play football. also, you're familiar with the term pro bono because it's a common thing. maybe somebody knows someone who can help. damn, the brojo's know the president. who else do they know?
fourth point: if congress were to open a discussion about whether or not the ncaa is doing its job, it's a good time for people who feel the ncaa isn't doing its job to speak up as a group.
You think I'm not enjoying this? The only reason I've replied is for fun, it's really clear that your ideas are poor and my responses aren't going to affect that either way.
Right, and then it'll just slip past the sports editor and into the broadcast. You don't have any idea how newsmedia works. I do.
So instead of giving to the AD they'll just give to some union organizers? Maybe a few will give a little, that's possible. Most will probably just keep their money, though, rather than throw it to something they feel no particular attachment to. Unions don't work pro bono, advertisers don't work pro bono and this stuff isn't exactly in the realm of Ad Council, lobbyists don't work pro bono. Meeting the president or having a father who's met him isn't the same as knowing the president.
Congress just wants to find a way to tax all that revenue from bowl games and tv contracts and the rest, they're not really out to get anything else from the NCAA.
first of all, i think you're being a d-bag with the handle you're using. you're forcing my hand on that issue.
second, the organizing of a group with common interest but not a lot of money is not mine, so i can't take credit for its general strengths/weaknesses.
third, there's nothing wrong with starting with a poor idea and working it into a good one. you want to bust my chops over not having the answer on the first try, like i'm an idiot for not having the polished plan on post #2. total douchebaggery on your part and you know it.
fourth, your general argument has been that it's too tough so it won't work. this is not a strong argument that it won't work. it's just a good excuse for not trying, agreed?
fifth, your first comment that my ideas are poor, and your responses aren't going to affect that, means that your responses are also poor. if you gave me good responses, i could then use the information you give me to improve my crappy ideas. but so far your responses haven't gone much beyond, "yeah right, i'm sure that'll happen." again, total douchebaggery on your part and you know it.
you know what, let's just forget about it. it's something to discuss with your buddies during a run. i just wanted to talk about it, not defend it.
Only if you're a complete simpleton who can't help himself.
But you're the one backing that suggestion HERE. If you don't know anything about it then quit talking out of your arse.
Loose cannon, eh? There's really no need for projecting, and you know it.
Nope, you've failed to grok even simple main ideas. Go find someone smarter to help explain it to you.
Nope.
Your ideas are doomed, I have zero interest in talking about how to save crap concepts.
Yeah, that's the ticket!
please contact me personally toughguy.
There are a lot of interesting ideas here. The focus seems to be on the direct problem instead of causes to it and ways to solve it, which is fine, bc if you don't know the problem, how do you solve it. I am no expert but we know what doesn't work very well. Trust me when I say that total hell was raised when BGSU first cut their team, it didn't seem to matter though.
It is my opinion that there is no one person, organization, or thing to blame here, however, for no one to as of yet seriously fault the NCAA is amazing. Their absurd rules and regulations have made it nearly impossible to separate sports from the cash they may or may not make. Further it is this organization that is wholly responsible for indirectly setting minimum costs to run any sport it governs. The entire organization needs restructured, retooled, and re-equipped to handle the demands of todays situations. I have a lot of ideas, some of them are good and some of them are not, but I am no expert with literally no experience in sports administration so for me to logically see the faults in a system is one thing, for me to solve them, thats something different. At the risk of being flamed, I will offer up a few novice ideas.
The idea of receiving a full athletic scholarship should be an idea that should be reserved for all-conference, perhaps all-american, type athletes, regardless of the sport. A 50 person track team is run on around the equivalent of 13 full scholarships. A 100 person football team should be able to operate on no less than twice this number and no more than 4 times this number. I don't see the logic behind the thought that last seasons 4th string quarterback who never even dressed a game deserves a better opportunity than last years 4th place finisher in a given event at the conference championships regardless of conference. It is not footballs fault, they are mandated by the NCAA to provide 85 full scholarships. . . and the best part is, there is no such thing as a partial scholarship. It is not the AD's fault, the only way for him to get out of the hole created by the cost of 85 scholarships is to spend the appropriate amount of money on coaches, recruiting, etc. to try to be competitive with the national caliber schools and create some way of making revenue to compensate for these expenditures. I really believe there aren't more than 20 schools a year that meet these lofty expectations for revenue.
The NCAA, and perhaps our society in general, is SO concerned with gender equity that they have disregarded cultural equity. Track athletes, just like every other athletic team member, are unique characters that belong to their own culture, with their own values, and their own beliefs. These are the things that diversify our world. Whose responsibility is it to maintain that diversity at a collegiate level? The college itself? The same college that is being pressed into attempting to meet ridiculous revenue expectations in every department, athletics included. Are we to look to law makers for changes in the way money is appropriated not only to the college, but also within it?
Blame can just as easily fall on major media outlets for not exposing our sport to the world. We can put poker on ESPN for hours and make it entertaining but fail to do so for track. At that rate, we can probably once again blame the NCAA for not facilitating more media involvement, although they are not solely to blame for this, and I'm not sure who is. You won't find the Tostito's Feista Meet on any schedule any time soon bc the exposure simply isn't there, and I think it's a clever play on words. There is no end of season "March Madness." No one has taken the time to come up with a way to market our sport like that and then followed through. Why is our product inferior?
Anyone still with me?
In conclusion, the idea of collegiate athletics is to enrich your student body, create opportunities for unique citizens, and represent the university on a level that goes beyond what a normal student can do. These are all qualities that can not be represented by a dollar figure. Somewhere along the line our universities and governing bodies seemed to have forgotten that and seem to have found it more appropriate to spend money more freely on certain sports. The question becomes, how do we change it?
As an aside, anyone have any figures on say Penns (Penn Relays) track and field budget numbers? how about Arkansas (how many years in a row have they hosted the indoor championship)? or Oregon(Prefontaine Classic)?
FYI the Ohio University Board of Trustees are suppose to vote in mid February on the recommendation to cut Men’s Track & Field
What can YOU do?
1) Write the universities Presidents, Athletic Directors and Trustees members to
voice your concern, this is especially important if you graduated from the
university, recommend students to go to the university and if you or your business
donate money to the university.
http://www.ohio.edu/president/trustees/index.cfm
2) Write a letter to your Ohio congress/senate members and voice your concern. To
finds your representatives go to -
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/Representatives.jsp
and
http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators
then type in your zip code.
3) Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper and voice your concern.
4) Pass this information on to as many friends as possible and ask them to do the
Same
--
Bob Parks said I could share the following with you.
Dear xxxx:
I am writing you about the recent unfortunate decision to drop men’s track and field at Ohio University. I was assistant coach at Western Michigan for 5.5 years, during which time we won a lot of MAC titles in addition to two NCAA cross country championships (only 3 have been won in MAC history and these are two of them--the other is BG in men’s ice hockey). After that I was head coach at my alma mater, Eastern Michigan, for 34 years. I retired in Dec. 2000, with 31 MAC championships in XC and track, plus another 13 unofficial ones in indoor track, before the MAC added it officially as a conference sport in 1996. That makes 44 total. The MAC championship was always a
special happening, with all the teams competing at once on the same field or track. Now it is a shadow of its former self, with seven conference schools dropping men’s track and field and two of those XC as well. Swimming, wrestling, and other sports have seen
the same thing happen. It is tragic to those who have competed in these sports at the various schools. They have no school, no sport, no nothing. It is all gone. In addition, the many young people in Ohio high schools, who compete in this popular sport, no longer
have three schools (BG, Toledo, OU--if the cut is approved) to go to any more. Track and field is one of the most heavily participated in sports in HS and also the world's most popular Olympic sport. It develops speed in players in other sports, such as football and
also helps in attracting two sport athletes (for example, FB and track) to the university. I had three FB/track athletes that spent 10 years or more in the NFL and more that were in the pros for a shorter period of time. Ohio has a great athlete now, Scott Mayle, who I saw burn EMU for a long TD run this fall, who is also tremendous at track and field. He has already long jumped 25-4.5 this winter and provisionally qualified for the NCAA meet. Mr. Solich is familiar with the great Nebraska track program and I am sure that some of these athletes did both sports. I can see no good reason why you are cutting these
sports unless it is to show that you are cutting things at OU. You still have your women’s program so you still have the coaches, you still have men’s XC so you will have some scholarships, I would presume. You just built a nice, new outdoor track and field
facility and I am sure there are plans for an indoor FB facility, which could and should also be used for track and field. Ohio U. was always one of my favorite stops for track or XC meets. Elmore Banton was a legend there as an athlete (NCAA champion--I had ten
of those, plus 10 Olympians, including three medal winners, gold, silver, and bronze) and coach and he treated us very well, as did all of the people there. It is a wonderful place, scenic along the river with a combination of old and new buildings. Some say that it
is the success of the OU FB team this past fall, which has caused this short-sighted decision, which will have long-term implications. I always strived for 30 walk-ons a year at EMU and this would generate about $400,000 in revenue, plus the alumni donations that you are going to lose. In addition, you have many graduates who send their offspring or their students to Ohio and this will greatly change. I have tried to help the Bowling Green and Ball State alums to get their programs back and send out a newsletter to WMU
(trying to get their program back) and EMU (trying to protect theirs) alums. This whole scenario is copycat among the various schools, with a quick fix planned to save a few bucks in the short term outlook. Many alums from the MAC schools have expressed to me their shock at what has happened. The MAC should not be just a football conference. A healthy conference encompasses all sports, both male and female. Right now, there is
not a problem on the female side in the conference, but there is a big one on the male side. My daughter is the women’s track/xc coach at Eastern Michigan. Several years ago, she interviewed for the job at Ohio, but did not take it. One of the reasons she left
Ball State, after 12 years to go to EMU this past summer, was the fact that Eastern still had a men’s team and BSU did not, feeling that it was an unfair disadvantage not to have a men’s team, as it was very hard to recruit women without men. I do hope that this
decision will not become final and that you will retain the great tradition, history, and participation in men’s track and field. Thank you very much, Bob Parks, Retired men’s track and field coach-Eastern Michigan University.
ohio sucks....cost me a buttload of money losing to ball state in hoops the other night.....AWFUL UNIVERISTY. they should can the whole damn athletic department.
Ohio University has announced it plans to drop its’ 100 year old Men's Track and Field program. If they drop track and field they will join Bowling Green, Toledo, Ball State, Western Michigan, Marshall and West Virginia who all dropped track and field in the last few years.
I just wanted to share with you that Rod O’Donnell and I spoke to the Ohio Association Track and Cross Country Coaches executive board at their business meeting on Thursday evening. The executive board passed a resolution to write a letter to support keeping track and field at Ohio University and other universities. They will post their letter later on their web site (http://oatccc.com) and they are also encouraging their 1,500 plus members to get involved to help “Save Track & Field”. After the high school rules interpretation meetings on Friday; coach O’Donnell addressed the Division I coaches, I addressed the Division II coaches and OATCCC president Vern Kiehl addressed the Division III coaches. We asked the coaches to get involved to express their concerns to the university officials and Ohio elected officials.
The Ohio University Board of Trustless plans to vote on the recommendation of dropping Men’s Track & Field at their mid-February meeting.
What can YOU do?
1) Write the universities Presidents, Athletic Directors and Trustees members to
voice your concern, this is especially important if you graduated from the
university, recommend students to go to the university and if you or your
business donates money to the university. Link to OU Board of Trustees -
http://www.ohio.edu/president/trustees/index.cfm
2) Write a letter to your Ohio congress/senate members and voice your concern.
to find your representatives go to -
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/Representatives.jsp
and
http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators
then type in your zip code.
3) Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper and voice your concern.
4) Pass this information on to as many friends as possible and ask them to do the
same.
With YOUR Help We can Work to SAVE TRACK & FIELD !!
Matt McGowan, Editor/Publisher RUNOHIO
Let all try to do something before the Trustees vote next week.. Thanks for your support!!
I know the whole MAC football thing is overrated in many people's (especially runners) eyes, but however the BCS system does bring in 3 million dollars PER team that take part in it. So that's a huge chunk of change, even if your team does go 1-10 in the MAC (like my school's). However, you'd figure out of that 3 million that comes in, a school would be able to cover the comparatively low overhead costs of running a track program.
I hate to say this, but you do have to look at collegiate sports through the eyes of dollar signs. College sports is a business, it not only brings in money to a school, but it is using the school's money to be run. How in the hell is track bringing in any money unless it is a high profile school. Not just a high profile program. Theres a reason the Tyson Invite is in Arkansas and is on national TV, theres a reason the Mayo Invite gets heavy coverage and takes place at a high profile/centralized school such as Notre Dame. If schools do not want to bother investing real time and money into any program it's not going to get build up/go any where.
T&F will never win out over football. Football is popular and it's what motovates people to give money to the school, it's the best marketing a school can have.
I wish that the US would go to the European model and not tie sports (football included) to the school. Just have clubs, and if you want to call the club the University of X club, just pay a licensing fee to the school. If the clubs operated independant of the school, then title IX isn't a concern, neither is gpa, etc...
It just seems to be a much better way of doing things.
Where are the OU guys?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ohiouniversitysports/signatures-21.html
http://bringingbackohiotrack.blogspot.com/
Working their butts off, and not in vain to try to keep their sport alive. Talk and talk all you want. Action is what it needed and they are acting.
from retired Ohio U coach and NCAA Champion Elmore Banton:
Open letter to the Ohio University Community:
One of the proudest days of my life was the day I became head coach of the men’s track and field program at Ohio University. January 25, 2007 was one of the saddest days in my life, when the announcement came that the university was cutting women’s lacrosse, men’s swimming, and of course, men’s track and field.
As a former athlete and coach, I am devastated over the elimination of these sports. I know that President McDavis and Athletic Director Kirby Hocutt inherited most of the problems that led to the cuts. My concern is that steps taken to resolve the situation did not involve enough in depth problem solving. To my way of thinking, there are different approaches that could have been taken to cut the deficit while not harming the diversity in the athletic department and in the university that we prize.
In Mr. Hocutt’s statement to the press, he gave the reasons for the cuts as a need to honor the Title IX directives and to respond to the fiscal deficit. One way of solving the Title IX issue is to cut men’s indoor track (yes, I am willing to give up indoor track in order to keep outdoor and the other two sports), and by adding 10-12 roster spots to the women’s track, women’s swimming, and women’s lacrosse. This measure or some tweeking of this idea would get to the numbers for gender equity. Did the committee ever consider this? The problem of gender equity can be readily solved.
The financial deficit is a much larger and more complicated problem to solve, but if we want to keep the prestige of the university and preserve our tradition of caring about our student athletes, we must spend time working on the problem rather than using the cut and run techniques that have so far been employed.
According to last year’s NCAA report, Ohio University spends $491 per track athlete per year, $10,000 per football athlete per year, and $22,000 per basketball athlete per year. Central Michigan, winner of this year’s MAC in football spends $4000 per football athlete per year. In fact six schools in the MAC spend less than $6000 per football athlete per year.
In addition, the Ohio University football program had a 1.9 million dollar deficit and basketball had a 331,000 dollar deficit last year. To anyone looking at these figures, it might appear that we are attacking the wrong animals. The cows have gotten too big for the barn, so we are throwing out the chickens instead of putting the cows on a diet.
Did the committee in its long study of the problem of the deficit ever consider any of the following ways to solve the problem?
* Cutting the athletic budget
* Making use of the Bobcat funds
* Reaching out to all athletic alumni for donations for a set number of years (we do it for everything else)
* When positions need to be filled in the athletic department, delaying hiring for six months and using the money for the deficit
* Stop paying replacement staff as much or more than their predecessors
* Ask for help from the student senate (you never know what they can do)
I understand that the athletic department is looking into building a new indoor facility. It is amazing that we are cutting programs on the one hand and thinking of building a new facility on the other. I know that private money will be used, but why not use private money to save these programs!!!!!
I am asking the university to delay the action so that the athletic department can leave no stone unturned in an all out effort to save these traditional programs that mean so much to our alumni and student athletes.
Dr. McDavis has said that this action is final. The only thing in life that is final is when the good Lord calls you home. Anything done by man can be undone. If the university does not reconsider this position, it means that a university that once was so proud of its student athletes no longer cares. If indeed, this action is final, this Bobcat will never bleed green again.
Elmore Banton, Retired Ohio University Track and Cross Country Coach
That's
really
very
naive.
In addition, the Ohio University football program had a 1.9 million dollar deficit and basketball had a 331,000 dollar deficit last year. To anyone looking at these figures, it might appear that we are attacking the wrong animals. The cows have gotten too big for the barn, so we are throwing out the chickens instead of putting the cows on a diet.
Mo - that is a great quote...love it! Only you could pull out a saying like that.
To Allison - I received the email for the internet petition...I didn't like the website really and have taken other actions (even though I'm a Redskin alum).
To the gentleman who suggested the "European" model is better. Does that work for England??? I haven't seen them tearing up the world recently at the Olympic level (no offense, Dominic). Our system, while flawed, works well for the 18-23 age group as proven for the last 50 years (remember, track and field is more than distance running, but sprints, hurdles, and field events). And if its so bad, why do some many Europeans come over here to compete in our universities?
Perhaps I don't understand the strengths behind the European model so if it could be explained perhaps I'd change my mind.
Track and Field will not beat football, but we're not trying to beat it. We're trying to get the powers-that-be to not make irrational decisions. Maybe if more track men went into Athletic administration positions this wouldn't happen (tell that to Sid Sink).
Keep fighting the good fight. It's far from over!
drunken coach and thug players. looks like OU has a winner here.