Ohio U. TF- The Real Story - Behind the Axe

Let this be a lesson to college athletes every where. The school does not care about you. And when it comes to T&F, not only do they not care, they simply tolerate your existance.

It looks like a number of the students at OU made a real effort to explain their situation, and to present alternative to the AD. But alas, no matter how logical, the ideas fell on deaf ears.

Men's T&F and XC (I won't include women since they are federal protected) need to look at the European club system and get ready to make the switch.

NCAA SITS UP AND TAKES NOTICE

From Tuesday, February 20, 2007 -

http://bringingbackohiotrack.blogspot.com

In response to a request from "OU Sports Fan," NCAA President Dr. Myles Brand will discuss the OU decision to cut varsity sports teams on his weekly podcast, "Mondays With Myles."

According to "Josh" on "Morning Coffee," Dr. Brand will discuss this issue on Monday, March 5. For more on this go to:

http://bringingbackohiotrack.blogspot.com

so is that it? anybody know what are the guys on the team going to do now?

rixctf wrote:

so is that it? anybody know what are the guys on the team going to do now?

that didn't come out right.

Title IX is necessary, that is true. However, mid-major football is a financial cesspool--almost no one is earning a profit. How does continuing to throw money down a bottomless pit help a university with compliance? Your argument is incongruent, because schools that do the best in compliance are the larger schools. These larger schools benefit from BCS money, and a larger alumni base. Financial stability=compliance.

I call bullshit on the MAC administrator...obviously this guy is NOT an administrator for any MAC school for many reasons. No administrator is a "proponent" of cutting sports, no matter how reluctantly it is. And if by some chance you ARE an administrator, post your name so we can overload your school email account with inappropriate images so that you get fired.

Title IX is outdated. It needs to be re-written or reinforced and every single women's group will tell you that.

Title IX has hardly been mentioned on this thread for the simple reason it is NOT the reason behind this move. It is all about the money. That's it. If OU cared and used any creativity, then it could comply.

On a side note, I have recently heard back from Mr. Masback at USATF. Even though he thinks my name is "Frank", he assured me that they are watching this VERY closely and are quite concerned. My hope is his office is proactive somehow.

FYI

On the Title IX web site under Athletics it states…Title IX governs the overall equity of treatment and opportunity in athletics while giving schools the flexibility to choose sports based on student body interest, geographic influence….

How can one of the most popular sports in the State of Ohio and in the country be a sport Ohio University and many Mid American Athletic Conference universities decided to drop. Is it because you can count Men’s Indoor Track and Field and the Men’s Outdoor Track and Field program twice to reduce their men’s number (in the OU case by 100 male athletes)? It would seem to me if the sport is this popular at the high school level, State funded universities should offer it to their students. (statistics listed below)

Another issue is the diversity of the track and field team. According The Athens Post on January 29, “Ohio University is the state’s least racially diverse college and offers one of the lowest percentages of financial aid among similar schools in Ohio, according to the Ohio Board of Regents’ 2006 Performance Report.” Men’s Track & Field has the third highest percentage of minorities on their team among the Men’s OU sports program.

It is my understanding that one of the main reasons why Miami University did not drop their Men’s Outdoor Track and Field program in 1999 after their Athletic Director recommended it be dropped was the Board of Trustees saw it as one of the programs that attracted minorities to the university.

Some facts on track and field..

Men’s Track and Field is the oldest sport known to mankind. Track and field has more countries in the world participating in the Olympic Games than any other sport. In Ohio there are 728 boys' high school track & field teams. Only basketball and baseball have more schools sponsoring a boys' team than track & field. According to the Ohio High School Athletic Association football has the most boys participating in a sport while boys track and field ranks third with 24,219 boys participating in Ohio high schools last year, just 49 fewer students athletes than second place basketball. According to statistics from the 2005-2006 National Federation Association of State High School Association there were 15,497 schools offering boys outdoor track and field. Only boys’ basketball had more high schools offering it than boys track and field. Boys high school track had the third most participants with 533,985, only football and basketball had more boys participating.

You aren't going to get it back. Even if you did...would you really want one of your henderson road athletes going to a school that even for one minute thought about cutting track?

Who's to say they wouldn't cut it again. If they did bring it back...they've said their budget was something like 15k. Why even fake it? It's a no-win situation for men at MAC schools that won't change unless big money comes in. Endow the program and they'll keep it. Bring 15,000 fans to a meet and they'll keep it.

OSU's football program is endowed. I think all their track scholarships are endowed as well. Sure...OU doesn't have that many endowed FB scholarships. However, they do bring fans. Head down to the OU home meet in early April and see what you find. Probably the biggest crowd in years because of all the hoop-la (about 300 people at any one time - watching their friend- and then leaving).

Put your time and energy into supporting schools that actually care about track and field (your alma mater).

First I apologize because my keyboard is broken. But more importantly my reading of Cohen 103 f3d 155 gives us a viable legal route. First schools are required to gage the athletic interests of the student body (id a 178) generally through a survey of the student body, does anyone know if such a survey took place at OU (or james madison) second achieving a male/female athl. dept. ration in proportion to the student body is by no means a mandatory form of compliance w/title 9

What is the ratio in the OU athletic dep.? At the school overall? Undergrad?

We need to attack the survey used 2 gage student interest in athlettics at OU there is emerging legal thought in this area, I need a copy of the survey used at ou....Cohen " an insititution violates title 9 if it fails to accomadate the interest and abilities of its students regardless of its performance with respect to other tile 9 areas cohen 155

I am willing to help please contact me at

jonlittle2004@yahoo.com

if you can help me with the survey or with the stats I need or anything else, thanks jon

It will be interesting to see what he says...

The indoor MAC T&F Meet is at the University of Akron this weekend. Let's see how much fan support there is there! Do you think there will be any signs or banners protesting the MAC Schools? Maybe a sit-in during one of the races to call atttention to the problem...Sure a few people would get arrested, but the news will come and the story would be out!!!! Burn a football uniform or a picture of the MAC commissioner or whatever....

I see you're still banging the drum about Cohen. The only thing that Title IX has to do with the situation at OU is that the Athletic Department dropped the name as a red herring. OU did not drop sports because of Title IX compliance issues. (P.S. Do you use "2" instead of "to" in your legal work? I bet that went over big in law school)

I don't think you will win friends or influence by "attacking" football. Football is not the reason they are cutting track. Like I have said many times, football and basketball are must haves- T&F is a nice to have.

Pointing out the financial folly of f'ball or "burning a football jersey" is the wrong approach. This is a time you need to look like you are there to be part of the school and part of the athletic department. Setting yourself up as an outsider just makes you look like you've already got one foot out the door.

Tossing out the financial losses of the f'ball team or arguing the title ix implictions of f'ball make sense, but you'll just be another Track & Field Don Quixote. Football and basketball ARE the athletic departments. They create the college memories, the social scene, and they act as PR for the University. Chances are everyone in town can tell you where they were when the team made the NCAA tournament, or won an important game, or kicked a winning field goal. I doubt anyone knows where they were when the OU long jumper popped a big jump or when the XC team finished well in a big invitational.

Just argue FOR T&F and XC- don't argue AGAINST other sports.

" Football is not the reason they are cutting track. Like I have said many times, football and basketball are must haves- T&F is a nice to have."

Says who? And who are you to say?

What is a must have? You must have missed Psychology 101.... food and drink, along with shelter are "must haves"....Everything else is a LUXURY!

Throwing money down the drain to support FOOTBALL (and basketball) is not a luxury that most universities have- especially Ohio University!

If you are a football or basketball fan- then go find another message board that caters to those sports!

If you are a T&F fan, then do something about it!

2 address your question- sometimes, because the pricks in the legal profession are way to full of themselves.

Title IX is not a red herring here. I know that football was the reason why the sports were cut, but if we can prove that 1. males are now the underepresented gender in college athletics and 2. that OU is not representing the students abilities and interests (it appears they did not even survey the student body before making these cuts) then we have something to go on.

Also I don't care about spell checking or proof reading on letsrun.

Jizzmo wrote:

Men's T&F and XC (I won't include women since they are federal protected) need to look at the European club system and get ready to make the switch.

yes, the women are federally protected, tell that to the Women's Lacross Team they just axed too.

Kieser wrote:

Title IX is outdated. It needs to be re-written or reinforced and every single women's group will tell you that.

"Frank", I mean Fred. We all appreciate your passion for this. It breaks my heart that the voice of track and field seems so minute these days in the age of MAC AD's who maintain delusional beliefs about football.

Maybe you could clarify for me, however, just what part of Title IX is outdated, and what women's groups would tell you that. There is not a woman's organization that I belong to who would tell you Title IX is outdated.

Former MAC MAN wrote:

If you are a football or basketball fan- then go find another message board that caters to those sports!

If you are a T&F fan, then do something about it!

Yes, I am a fan of football and basketball and T&F. I just think you need to operate within the context of reality. That reality being that the first two sports mentioned are vastly more popular than that latter.

I can't imagine that if you were an AD your first priority would be T&F. The success of football and basketball is what will determine whether the AD keeps his job.

Before we are back to believing that this latest move in college athletics is somehow a Title IX problem, read the position of the Women's Sport Foundation.

It is important as a collective whole to all be on the same page with our efforts. I've seen too much here that still indicates there is a subtle attack somehow on Title IX and that there is at least a partial blame that the loss of this track team as well as WMU, BGSU and the likes has something to do with Title IX. It has to do with administrators and conferences not willing to be a ceiling on sports such as football.

Please take the time to understand what Title IX has meant to our women as far as all educational opportunities, not just sports, and place fault where it belongs.

That is all I ask. 16x

"The data shows that lost opportunities for some men whose sports have been dropped have resulted in new opportunities for men in other sports. For instance, between 1981-82 and 1998-99, 1,022 men's gymnastics, 2,648 men's wrestling, 683 women's gymnastics and 229 women's field hockey participation opportunities were lost. During that same period, men's football, soccer and lacrosse opportunities increased by 7,199, 1,932 and 2,000, respectively as did numerous women's sports (GAO Report, Intercollegiate Athletics, 2001).

There are natural shifts of funding and interest in men's and women's sports that occur and sports participation is affected by changes in NCAA institutional membership. It is inaccurate to blame these shifts on Title IX. Similarly, a 1997 study of individual institutions revealed that programs commonly added and dropped men's and women's sports between 1978 and 1996 with men's and women's sports programs showing a net gain (Women's Sports Foundation, 1997)."

Football: Women’s Sports Foundation Position

The Women's Sports Foundation does not support reducing opportunities for male or female athletes to play sports. The purpose of laws prohibiting discrimination is to bring the disadvantaged population up to the level of the advantaged population, not to treat male athletes in minor sports like female athletes who weren't given a chance to play.

The key to affording current men’s sport opportunities while expanding opportunities for female athletes is to stop the men’s revenue sports arms race. Schools should not be cutting men's non-revenue producing teams like swimming, wrestling and gymnastics when they are spending money on putting football teams in hotels the night before home football games and spending excessively on similar items in one or two sports.

College presidents must take the responsibility to reduce athletic program spending and stop the arms race. In addition, athletic conferences, leagues and governance organizations like the NCAA have not been willing to legislate expenditure limitations, lower scholarship limits, even require fewer games if that's what it takes to make sure that male non-revenue producing sport participants as well as females get the chance to play.