Doug Padilla's '82 milrose 5k

Boy, that guy (and that era) was a great one. All the races mentioned were classics ... Didn't Padilla also win a slow World Cup or Grand Prix final in 85? He ranked very high globally in the 5k that year; I want to say first or second, despite what Aouita and Maree did, but I'm not sure.

Padilla also once ran a 7:38 3k and in 82 a 13:17 5k that was one of the best (deepest) ever for Americans. Padilla, Spivey, Hill and Fox all broke 13:22 that day, I think. Has there ever been another race with 4 Americans that fast? I don't think so.

Also in terms of fast indoor 5ks of that era, who can also forget that Millrose 5k in 81 with Nyambui setting the WR and Salazar the AR, 13:20.4 to 13:22.6? That was an all-time classic, too.

Padilla did have some amazing indoor 3k/2M's, as the poster said. I think he ran 8:15-16 2 or 3 times (on slow tracks) and 7:44-46 2 or 3 times, too.

Indoor 5000m All Time

12:50.38 Haile Gebrselassie ETH Birmingham 14 02 1999

12:51.48 Daniel Komen KEN Stockholm 19 02 1998

13:11.39 Alberto García ESP Gent 09 02 2003

13:15.22 Paul Bitok KEN Birmingham 14 02 1999

13:20.4 Suleiman Nyambui TAN New York 06 02 1981

13:20.55 Doug Padilla USA New York, NY 12 02 1982

13:20.8 Emiel Puttemans BEL Paris 10 01 1976

13:21.27 Nick Rose GBR New York 12 02 1982

13:22.17 Geoff Smith GBR New York, NY 12 02 1982

13:22.56 Saïd Aouita MAR Fairfax, VA 05 02 1989

13:22.6 Alberto Salazar USA New York 06 02 1981

Doug once allowed me a few hours to peruse through his training logs:

Highest mileage week: 84

Average: 50-60, with some 40s and 70s regularly sprinkled in.

He would run 1 or 2 800s early season in ~1:48.

He was on the track ~4 times a week.

Typical workout was something like 1200 = 3:23, 2 x 800 = 2:13, 2 x 400 = 57. I saw a lot of that.

I also saw a lot of 4-5 x 400 in 57ish.

He once started a workout with a 200 in 22.8.

His breakthrough occured at a small meet in Arizona while running for BYU. He had just run the 1500m and not done very well, was 4th or so. Anyway, he decided to double back in the 5,000 that Alberto was running in. He was determined as could be that he was going to lay everything on the line and not give into fatigue.

He came through 2 miles 20sec ahead of his previous 2 mile PR and took the lead but was gunned down on the homestretch by Salazar (kind of Ironic?). But, from then on he was a great runner.

I saw Doug Padilla at the NCAA meet with two cameras and hanging out with Ed Eyestone and the rest of the BYU crowd. He works with the BYU women but I'm not sure to what extent. He also travels around timing meets with his company,

www.runnercard.com

Class act. Really nice guy.

ET -- right on with that training

A good friend of mine ran with Padilla at Chabot College and the above training description is accurate.

jtupper, not sure how to phrase this question or even if it is a good question, but from a science stand point, what conclusions can you draw from his great race results on seemingly limited volume. Well, besides the obvious, he was just good, and as you say, everyone is an experiment of one.

Doug was ranked fifth in the world in 1983 (13:17.69), 9th in the world in 1984 (13:23.56) and 2nd in the world in 1985 (13:15.44) and #1 US each year.

he was twice ranked top-10 US in the 1500 (#7 in 1981 at 3:38.37, #9 in 1983 at 3:37.95). he ran 13:43 or faster every year from 1979 through 1990 and was ranked top-7 US 11 straight years from 1980-1990.

Doug also missed several peak years (1976-78, 19 through 21) as he was on his Mormon Mission

Ah, so that 13:17.69 was in 83 ... If I remember right, the times were something like this:

Padilla 13:17.69 PR then, 2nd-best time ever?

Spivey 13:18.54? PR then, 2nd-best time ever?

Hill 13:19.73 lifetime PR

Fox 13:21.60 lifetime PR

Can't recall the meet though ... might have been Helsinki, or 2nd Oslo meet back when they had two big ones. I'm not sure if Padilla won, but there were at least a few other internationalists mixed in there.

And I ask again ... has there ever been another 5k with 3 Americans under 13:20 or 4 under 13:22? That would be interesting to know.

Wait ... there may have been a Pre meet, or another in Eugene where Centrowitz, Salazar and McChesney ran better...

Ok, I answered my own questions, somewhat..

6/28/83 Oslo (not Bislett Games) - ? Padilla 13:17.69, ? Spivey 13:18.xx, ... 4. Hill 13:19.73, 5. Eamonn Martin 13:20.94, 6. Fox 13:21.60 ...

However, this meet was superior in every way:

6/5/82 Pre Classic - 1. Centrowitz 13:12.91 (AR), 2. ? (Salazar? McChesney?), 3. King 13:18.19, 4. Cummings 13:19.82 ...

totally off topic, but ... how's this for a fast 5K --- Weltklasse 1997 --- includes druggies, but still, 12:56 for 6th??

1)Geb 12:41.86

2)Komen 12:44.90

3)Tergat 12:49.87

4)Boulami 12:53.41

5)Baumann 12:54.70

6)Koech 12:56.29

7)Chelule 13:02.52

8)Nyariki 13:04.41

the scones wrote:

totally off topic, but ... how's this for a fast 5K --- Weltklasse 1997 --- includes druggies, but still, 12:56 for 6th??

1)Geb 12:41.86

2)Komen 12:44.90

3)Tergat 12:49.87

4)Boulami 12:53.41

5)Baumann 12:54.70

6)Koech 12:56.29

7)Chelule 13:02.52

8)Nyariki 13:04.41

Looks like some of those guys timed their injections perfectly. True craftsmanship.

Throw out the druggies (Baumann and, for argument's sake, Komen) and 12:56 still only gets you 4th - that's a DAMN fast 5,000 (12:56 = about 4:10/mile).

x: To me it is great to see different training produce good results. Sure, there are some basic principles that need attention (you have to do somoe running to be a better runner being one of them), but given the variables at work (physiological, psychological, biomechanical, etc) it is not particularly surprising that different people benefit from a variety of training regimens. I heard of an Olympic marathoner, who after a very good run in the Olympics got a muscle biopsy done and found out he was 60% fast twitch -- he was not supposed to be a distance runner. Good thing he hadn't had that done earlier or he may have given up the sport long ago.

I have always said that the best indoor race ( maybe even best race PERIOD) that I EVER saw was a battle between the great Doug Padilla and the dreaded Said Aouita. Padilla did absolutely EVERYTHING right, holding off no less than 5 huge off-the-turn moves by Aouita late in the race, only to get caught off the LAST TURN of MSG's tiny track in the Millrose 5000 one year (possibly 1984). Padilla was in a dead sprint on those last 3-4 straightaways, knowing Aouita could not get him on the turns. On two occasions, Aouita actually got pulled ahead on the outside, but could not close the door on the "all out" Padilla. Amazingly Aouita found just enough off the last turn to dip Padilla at the line. The race was so exciting that it seemed surreal. In the last 800m, I almost slipped into a trance, completely blown away by what I was seeing.

Didn't Padilla also have the best set of ears in track?

jtupper, I have relayed this story previously, but thought you may appreciate it considering your background & experience. Upon returning to Bowling Green for his senior season in '73 after taking the gold in '72, the physiology staff wanted to test Dave Wottle. Head coach Mel Brodt politely refused their tests concluding, "The tests might show that he is not capable of the world record and gold medal, and Dave just doesn't need those distractions."

jtupper wrote:x: To me it is great to see different training produce good results . .

jtupper, I remember reading somewhere that Henry Marsh, who also emphasized quality over volume, would begin his training cycle by running shorter, quicker intervals. He would then gradually increasing the distance of his intervals, along with his overall volume.

When I was healthy, I also seemed to have my best success with this same general pattern.

Have you encountered many athletes who perform better with this inverted-pyramid pattern than the more common pyramid pattern? What would be a possible physiological basis for this?

By the way, it's always great to read your comments.

Steve Spence supposedly started his speedwork phases with shorth (<400m) intrvals to get his "track legs" back.