Adams State

Just wanted to say that kids who go there go there to run. Their degree is on the side. There isn't much to do in Alamosa besides run, so you're able to focus. No distractions. It's a way of life.

The Vigil days are starting to become far removed.

A look at their men's roster reveals a reliance on international distance athletes.

Luke, Drew, Florian were new additions for Fall '08, but it's Ok, they're white.

say George, i took two of my students to Colorado for 4weeks spend 22days in Boulder 5,400ft and did pick ups every 5days, and we ran to times per day, and i give them 36hours rest, my slow runner was a girl 5;14miler, then when to Alamosa 7,544ft and after 8days we came back to Calif, a week later she ran a all comers meet and she ran the 1,500m

and her time was 4;46, before we when to Colorado here best 1,500m time was 4;59. if you want to train like a champion you need to go to Alamosa and just run in your own zone.

this summer i will take another group back to Alamosa.

Get 20+ guys training hard together at 7500ft and good things will happen! This years team just appears to have bonded really well, Braun is an inspirational leader, the 3 European kids have added an extra element and are well liked by all. I think there will be some very fast times come outdoors!

Adams State Alum29 wrote:

The school is a joke! Everyone get a free pass!

troll alert. not a alum. most likely a western states dweeb.

This school is D2. Moderators please delete this thread its obvious a D2 coach has no plan. He just a job filler with little to no running experience and gets his workouts from various books at the public library. If youngsters start following this model they will be incredibly slow and also run d2.

An interesting topic and one that I hope I can shed some light on, as I spent my college days running and going to school there.

First, lets talk about the coach, Damon Martin. It seemed that he was certainly influenced by his time spent with Joe Vigil. I forget what year he became the head coach of the girls squad, but his time overlapped several years with Vigils as the men's head coach. Presumably, during that time, he was able to gain a lot of insight into coaching by working alongside Vigil. However, he was also very much of his own mind and he knew what he wanted to do in terms of his training philosophy. This was made visible if one looked at the training from year to year. During the time I was there, the training schedule seemed to have minor changes every season, compared to the previous. It was like he was always coming up with new ideas on what the perfect training should entail and he would add those ideas when the new season started. Because of this, if you compared his training schedule from his early years at the college to the present day, there would probably be major differences.

Recruiting foreigners was never actively done while I was there, as far as I know. Kids from Colorado and New Mexico were the primary recruits coming out of high school. There was also a fair amount from California high schools and junior colleges. People that were originally from other countries had always lived in the U.S. for several years before coming to ASC. Coach Martin was not one to go recruiting foreigners. Just not his style. However, he is a competitive person and certainly wants to field a good team. So if a talented foreigner were to contact Martin and show interest in running for the team, he almost definitely wouldn't turn them down.

The schedules mentioned earlier in this thread looks pretty accurate for mid-season. A few of the main ideas I can express about the training: lots of miles, long intervals, moderately paced runs almost every day, and mountains.

Mileage was big. Easy days had 2 runs, with 30-35 minutes and 60-75 minutes, respectively. And there was no guarantee that either of those runs would be "easy" or "slow".

Intervals were usually pretty long, although less so during track season. The lappers in the park talked about earlier, mile reapeats (not on the track), timed intervals on the roads (maybe 1-5 minutes), etc. Tempo runs (5-8 miles fast) were also fairly important.

Moderately paced runs almost every day. Almost every regular run (non speed-work, tempo, etc) would start out slow, maybe 8:30 pace, and pick up fairly quickly. A large portion of those runs would regularly be in the 6:30 range, often times getting to 6:00 pace towards the end.

Long rolling (mostly upwards) mountain runs were usually done once per week. Some years this was often replaced with hill repeats (also in the mountains).

The main problems that would arise were usually due to conflicts between runners. These are probably somewhat common for college cross country/track teams and include things related to differences in ability, ego, etc. Along with that was the somewhat strict nature of the coaching staff. In a way this made sense because Adams State has fielded a strong running team for years and the goal is to continue that tradition. The coaches wanted people that were dedicated to being good individual and team runners. The flip side of that was the coaches expected the runners to have very boring and mundane lifestyles, which isn't necessarily a good thing either. A lot of the runners missed out on new activities and experiences because of this.

Before this previous season, there were several years where the talent on the team was enormous but the end result was under achievement. In my opinion there could definitely be a couple more national championship team trophies for the men. Internal conflicts seemed to be the primary cause of the lack of performance. Many of the runners would focus more of their energy on beating their teammates in practice than beating other teams by running and training well together. It was like a misguided competitiveness.

That brings me to another point. There seemed to be an unhealthy dislike and distrust of the Western State College runners. A rivalry has existed for years between the two schools, not only in running but in all sports to a certain extent. However, it was taken to ridiculous levels and a very negative atmosphere developed around the viewpoint of WSC. The odd thing was that it seemed to stem from sour relations between the two head coaches (Martin and Duane Vandenbusche). It appeared that the negative feelings of Martin permeated the ASC team and the negative feelings of Vandenbusche permeated the WSC team. None of the runners had any reason to dislike the opposing team's runners, but each team still harbored those feelings.

There was also the issue of post-collegiates training with the college kids. A surprising number of professional or independent runners have spent time training in alamosa, and every so often they end up training regularly with the team. This was sometimes a problem because of their differing physical abilities and non-collegiate racing schedule. Bottom line: they were not on the same page as the college kids and could at times be a distraction to team cohesiveness.

People have talked briefly about the quality of education at Adams State College. First, I would like to mention that college education is what you make of it. If you are interested in your major and motivated then you will find ways to learn. It comes down to the student first. That being said, in my opinion, ASC was not a very good school in terms of learning and teaching. There were good teachers and programs (the science department looked pretty solid), however I got the feeling of a generalized lack of quality from teachers and students. Many teachers seemed to lack the required motivation or intellect for teaching well, while many students didn't seem to be very interested in the subject matter. I have a feeling that these two problems were simply feeding on each other and thus the situation wasn't really getting any better.

Another point to go along with that was there seemed to be an overall lack of knowledge and training throughout the employees of the school and also the town in general. It was kind of a mindset of people not caring enough to actually excel in their jobs. Perhaps a product of the poor economic situation of that section of Colorado.

That brings up the subject of the town of Alamosa. It is a typical small town. Everyone knows almost everyone. Rumors travel from one end to the other in a matter of hours. There is a general lack of "stuff to do". However, in college it's a little easier to create fun because you tend to have friends that are willing to go out and do things. If you and your friends are creative enough, fun is never lacking.

The end

something I refer to as a "meat grinder" program. Throw everyone (20-25 guys) into the same high mileage program and the 8 or 9 that don't get hurt will be pretty darn good while ruining the 10 or 15 other kids on the team. Real developmental training they have going on there it sounds like, but very typical of these successful programs.

I respect what Adams has done. They get good to great recruits and they train hard and race fast. Sometimes they dont' run their best at nationals and leave their best races in the middle of the season but all in all, they are a great program.

As already mentioned, they live a spartan life. They go to Adams to run fast. When you get that many dedicated runners and give them a good dose of mileage, intensity and through some tradition in there, you get great results.

A big benefit that Adams has is that it is dirt cheap. Tuition looks to be $2500 a year but there appears to be a Colorado stipend of $1,100 a semester that would make the tuition about $300 a year. The requirements to get the stipend are basically that you apply to the state, there are no income requirements.

Either way, that is one cheap school.

Adams State.. well what can we say about it. people like to knock anything that is successful... if they had a few good athletes, like one or two a year people would say,well anyone can develop one athlete a real coach(DIV 1) can develop a team. So when coach martin Develops an amazing mens and womens team(dont forget that, he is over everything, men, women, track, xc. he has great assistants, but still is the head coach)year in year out he gets bashed for that. So then he has an amazing team, great individuals, collegiate and post collegiate, loads of people train up there, people still say well its just the altitude. Also people bash the school, thats not the coachs fault.. Look speakin from experience its a strange place,this is for sure. but amazing at the same time. but if u want to run fast and give urself the chance to be in an amazing program then go to Adams, or go train there. Its a great place. Some amazing athletes, and u will do some of the hardest workouts u could ever think about. that is for sure. Most of the athletes on here are always talkin about how hard they are and how they like to pound out the milage, well then Adams should be the Galen Rupp of teams, the great American hope, the under dog. Them and Western are doing amazing jobs on a shoe string budget. I have nothing but respect for coach martin. He is a man that lives around the team. The athletes love him, obviously not everyone will become a champ there, but he does amazing things with most athletes he gets.

This thread is shooting, like, 42% accuracy from the field right now. From the top:

"Interviewing DII Powerhouse Coach Damon Martin of Adams State

11 November 2008 at 02:12

The Adams State men and women recently swept the Division II Central Regional Titles. This is neither surprising nor unexpected considering:

ASC's men have won more national titles than any other college or university at any level of collegiate cross country!!!

That would be 17 National Titles Total: 5 at the NCAA Division II level and12 NAIA. (2 more this year)

The women are close behind with 16 national titles, 13 at the NCAA Division II level and 3 NAIA. That includes the current streak of 5 conference crowns.

ASC is also the only school to ever perfect score at an NCAA Championship meet (1992- Slippery Rock baby yea! Although, watch-out, this year, the Washington Women just may break that streak!)

So why and how is this little University with a total (not athlete) population of 2000 soooo good? They produced 63 All-Americans last year alone and won 9 consecutive women’s conference titles from 1991-1999. When it comes to speed and quality, when it comes to the ability to dominate, Divisions mean nothing: if you have the right coach, that is.

Arguably, the answer lies in their Head Coach, Damon Martin. Damon didn’t go to a huge track school. He didn’t go to Arkansas, he didn’t go to Florida State, he didn’t go to Stanford or Texas or LSU. He went to a little NAIA school, University of Arkansas Monticello, and he worked his tail off so much and competed so hard that he qualified for the 1988 Olympic Trials in the 5k and was sponsored by Reebok for awhile.

It didn’t matter where he came from, what division he was in, it didn’t even matter who he was competing against. Damon Martin epitomized John L Parker’s quote from his Once A Runner, “A runner doesn’t run against the clock—They run against the best that’s inside them…against God if you’re good enough.”

Coaching at ASC since 1989, he’s the 22-Time National Coach of the year (Now 24 time national coach of the year). So then why would this guy, who’s been sponsored by Reebok, who’s been to Olympic Trials, be coaching at such a small DII school if he’s so great? Coach Martin explains why he wouldn’t rather be anywhere else:

What keeps you at Adams State?

Coach Damon Martin: We get focused kids and we do this in a small community where everyone apart of the program is proud of it. We get successful doctors, lawyers, even though we’re not in the Denver, Boulder area of Colorado. We get kids like Heather Woods or Aaron Braun, who could have gone to Stanford with a near perfect score on her ACT or a 3.8 GPA. We often have the top chem or top math student at the college, which makes it easier to recruit good students. No kids fall through the cracks. When you have the ability to consistently train someone over 3-5 years, you can really build a strong pack. I can’t see myself working anywhere else: I love Alamosa, Colorado. My family is deeply embedded here and the running here MEANS SOMETHING. At a lot of those other big track and cross country schools, other programs, football, basketball, overshadow what they do. Here, running really means something.

How did you end up coaching at ASC in the first place?

CDM: I was a poor college kid and even after Trials, I was really struggling. I was struggling with training and struggling with money. Sponsorships back then were not like sponsorships for a runner now. I got a job offer from them and I couldn’t really turn the offer down…I may have never gotten such a great opportunity again! Sponsorships have truly gotten better over the years.

Do a lot of your athletes aspire to keep training to get to Olympic Trials or to go Pro like you?

CDM: Less than 10% of my 90 person Track and Field team will train and continue competing at a high level post-collegiately. I have a handful of post collegiates who still train with me though. I have a variety of athletes: some see this as a way to attain lifelong fitness, a smaller percentage want to go to Olympic Trials or compete internationally.

What’s the difference between coaching/competing in Division II vs. the NAIA? I understand the school switched from NAIA to DII in 1992…

CDM: Ya know, I really enjoyed coaching in the NAIA from ’89-92. I was also an athlete in the NAIA. There’s just such a camaraderie around the country; it’s less cutthroat than DII. Since the switch, yes, ASC has established some great relations at the DII level, but I will always cherish coaching/competing in the NAIA. Coaching in the NCAA is great in that everything is at the highest quality level there can be, from awards presentations to them reimbursing your travel costs to the national meet. In NAIA, you had to pay your own way to the national meet.

Will ASC ever transition from DII to D1, like they transitioned from NAIA to DII?

CDM: That could never realistically happen. We couldn’t afford the school to be D1. A D1 cross country program budget is larger than the entirety of the ASC athletics program budget combined. But this is a sport where resources are more than dollars. Money isn’t necessarily the motivation here. Look at distance running: a lot of 3rd world countries are the best.

Tell me about recruiting: Do you get footlocker finalists or the diamond in the rough? Are you competing for the same athletes a D1 program might be recruiting?

CDM: 90% of the kids here contact us first. They weren’t the best. A lot of the kids here were 4th, 5th, 6th best at their state meet, and that doesn’t mean they didn’t have a lot of talent, it means it wasn’t developed. We follow up here at Adams State, if we realize someone wants to come here. We have kids from Jamaica, England, France, Wyoming, Texas, New Mexico, Alaska. I think I’ve only had a Footlocker finalist once before. I just want athletes who want to be here, train here in Alamosa, go to school here. We graduate the upper 80% of our students and that’s something.

What’s your coaching motto/mentality?

CDM: To make the most of what we have. We’re located in the largest valley around, so we have to travel to get to hills, but everything here is pristine, and there’s a 1-22 professor/student ratio here, so our athletes get a lot of attention as students. We also individualize certain workouts or mileage for athletes. The “my way or the highway approach” tends to decrease performances overall.

And what do you have, in terms of facilities, scholarship dollars, etc?

CDM: I’m so excited—we are getting a 12 million dollar renovation for a new training room! We’re getting a new cold tub that will fit 15-20 athletes at a time! There are also Boosters who help me out with the program and assist me in getting items I need: Recently, a Booster bought us an anti-gravity treadmill…when athletes get injured and are coming back, that anti-gravity treadmill is so critical. We have a great full-time athletic training staff here.

We have more men on the team than women, even though our school has more women’s sports than men’s. Men are more likely to walk-on anywhere than women if the roster isn’t controlled. I happen to have more scholarship program money for women.

In DII, about 12.4 scholarships are set aside for men and women each, while at a DI program, they are allowed about 18.6 scholarships total. Most schools, D1 or DII, however, can’t afford to give away the full totality of those scholarships because that’s their total budget…that’s just their maximum. Most give anywhere between 5-8 scholarships.

D1 sucks up a lot of the talent, but that’s not to say that we don’t get any. A lot of my athletes that come in have undeveloped talent. Then we develop it and win national championships.

******************************************************************************

Just for kicks, while it’s ludicrous to compare cross country times across different courses since 1 could be quite hilly and another primarily flat, let’s compare the DII Adams State Men’s Times of their top 5 scorers from their conference meet (25:09 average) with what team they might closest resemble at the NCAA DI conference meets:

Adams State Men (1,2,3,4,5): RMAC (1st) vs. FSU Men (1,3,4,5,6): ACC (4th)

Aaron Braun 24:35 Matt Leeder 24:36

Brian Medigovich 24:59 Luke Gunn 24:58

Ryan McNiff 25:15 Daniel Roberts 25:15

Reuben Chebon-Mwei 25:23 Mike Fout 25:23

Babey Wagnew 25:32 Jason Lakritz 25:33

Disclaimer: the above assessment ignores the following:

1) ASC was racing at about a mile high altitude wise- hence, slower times

2) The ACC race was not FSU’s Luke Gunn’s best race, as he is usually FSU's #1 runner and he ended up being 3rd scorer for the team

3) Steeve Gabart, 2nd runner for FSU at the meet, finished with a time of 24:48

...Hence, I’m not saying that ASC’s 1-5 men would score the same way FSU’s 1-5 men scored on that day... I'm saying notice that the ASC men, at altitude, have only a 57s differential between their 1st and 5th place scorer...the same differential between one of the best D1 programs in the nation's 1st through 6th place scorer. Also, it's just fun data to look at IF times were comparable as they are in track, where these ASC athletes MIGHT have placed in a meet against other D1 athletes. Also, as stated before, comparing times on 2 different courses is ludicrous, especially with altitude being another variable between the two conference meets.

Regardless, for kicks and giggles, let’s remember that FSU has been considered an underdog for the National Title (with Oregon, Oklahoma State, etc being some clear-cut favorites) if FSU’s Luke Gunn is healthy and able to get back up front, and if they don’t underestimate the perseverence and talent of the ACC strongholds such as Virginia.

This means that, on paper, albeit, a ludicrous sheet of paper, this Division II Men's program could arguably place within the top 20 of the NCAA rankings, let alone contend with some of the greatest distance programs we’ve ever seen.

This was further supported (on a less ludicrous sheet of paper) at the Roy Griak Invitational, when the Grizzly men bested all 24 Division 1 squads they raced against, 7 which were ranked. The Grizzly Women finished 6th in a 23-field team made up entirely of all Division I competition. The field included powerhouses such as Arizona State and Duke University.

Conclusion: The Grizzlies of Adams State are the real deal. The men, ranked 2nd in DII only to primarily all Kenyan-team Abilene Christian before the regional meet, and now ranked #1 in D1 after their sweep last weekend, are hoping to add another National Title to their belts later this month. And with a 5k Olympic Trials Qualifier and 22-Time National Coach of the Year leading their ranks into battle, they just might do so.

**The Trackshark Staff would like to thank esteemed Coach Damon Martin for this interview, especially as he took out the time last Tuesday when the team was leaving on Wednesday for their regional meet. That was very much appreciated, and as a Staff, we are wishing you the best of luck on the remainder of your season. Congrats on a dominating performance at regionals!!!

**Also, thank you to my readers with a critical eye and sharp ear to the sport who remind me to add in that the altitude difference between the conference times and the change in rankings from #2 to #1 are important edits to add to the article after the time of interview...you make Trackshark a better community as a whole and you are appreciated, as always: Thank you.

Again, Adams is a great program and something every team in the country should look to as a model of what works.

With that being said, Adams does not have a shoe string budget. According to the info they have to send to the government, they have over $200,000 in expenses for xc/indoor and outdoor - men's and women's, each year.

To give some light to that, here is a break down of the top 5 teams in the power rankings and their operating expenses (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx):

#1 Adams - $222,000+

#2 Ashland - $50,000+

#3 Central Missouri - $146,000+

#4 Western - $84,000

#5 Grand Valley - $227,000+

Again, an awesome program but by no means a team that has a shoe string budget.

Agreed, they also have an Alter G Treadmill already... Not too many shoestring budget teams rolling with those machines...

kordikowski wrote:

Agreed, they also have an Alter G Treadmill already... Not too many shoestring budget teams rolling with those machines...

They got it because of a donor.

hey George, Alamosa, is a small town, 1,500 locals live in that area and 1,500 ASC students, it's not a PARTY school and you should take a drive up to that small town and just let the 7,544ft come to you, but eat and train the smart way, you will also need naps everyday, ran 2 times per day and stay in that area for about 4weeks and then see what you can when you return back home , also go and see Coach Martin he is a very nice person and maybe you we see way they ran fast.

I ran for Vigil in the late 70's and I still follow the ASC teams with great interest and know almost all of the runners from their National Championship teams. Vigil was a great coach and so is Martin the difference between the tow is Martin's program is much more individualized. I bleed green so it is difficult for me not respnd here with non biased responses.

I just came across this thread and followed something remarkably similar on my way to a 29:36 10k before I got injured. But I'm wondering what you guys did for base in the offseason, more mileage, or pretty much the same plan? I was always intrigued by the Adams guys, how devoted to running so many of them were, the tradition, and the results!

I don't know what everyone did in their off season, but it used to be that when you got there before the start of XC season, there was a 10 mile time trial and you were expected to be able to run under 55:00 in Alamosa before the season started.

What about Western State? Are they into high mileage like the ASC guys? What are the differences between the two programs training wise?