Loss of coordination in leg - Official runner's dystonia / focal dystonia discussion thread

After 30 years, in a word.....NO

Is there anything over those thirty years that you found helped?

I've been struggling with this for a while I've been trying to find a reason for this loss of coordination with NO pain or catching sensation in the hip/leg. Mine usually happens around 40 minutes into an easy run or 20 minutes of moderate to tempo paced runs. I've run countless ideas through my head but have still been unsuccessful after a year and a half with this. This is a serious question.

I want to know if there is a correlation between drinking alcohol and this "syndrome"....Alcohol neuropathy is known to cause movement/muscle/nerve dysfunction in chronic drinkers (possibly many acute binges too). I by no means am a chronic drinker but I do enjoy a moderate amount of alcohol on a fairly constant basis and occasionally binge drink (about once a month at most). I feel that this MIGHT make the loss of coordination worse the day after I drink.

So....For the people who have loss of coordination during running with NO pain and NO catching sensation/feeling in the hip, I was wondering if any of you DO NOT drink alcohol at all (100% abstain) and still have this loss of coordination?

I would easily give up alcohol if this was the reason for this loss of coordination in my leg. Thanks for any responses.

Alcohol is not the culprit. When the issue first came up with me I maybe drank 2 beers a week if any at all.

I can remember the workout it first hit, 6 x mile on the track in February 1984. The last 400 of the last mile I couldn't control the leg. From that point forward it hit in every hard workout and every race when I was somewhat fatigued.

I still ran 28:21 on one leg and qualified for the trials that year. It was the Salazar 10K in Eugene and I was with the breakaway front pack of 5 guys at 5 miles (22:39 - yes it was a 440 yard track then) and then the leg just did it's weird thing. The top 4 ran 27:55 to 28:01. I felt great, but my leg just wouldn't work.

Ran the trials in both the 5K and 10K but didn't make it through the heats as both times the same thing happened. Told myself then I'd never race again until it was fixed. Had 3 exploratory surgeries (compartment, knee scope and popletiel(sp) entrapment release (trapped artery). No go.

I never raced again.

Hmmm well maybe not I guess.

Curious about something else that you might be able to answer. Before this started to happen to me I started a random lifting routine and tweaked one of the glute muscles in the leg that loses coordination. It was about a week before it happened for the first time.

Did you have any injury or change in training prior to this?

Also did you find any strengthening program of the leg that helped?

Thanks.

It's interesting that you mentioned alcohol in relation to losing coordination. I've posted in this thread before but basically I've been dealing with this issue for 7 months now (I took one month completely off during this time in an attempt to get better). I was a 1430 5k runner in college with hopes of continuing to train after college and run a solid half, and eventually marathon. Well when I graduated college I also began drinking a lot more. I'm really into craft beer and I'm not sure if it's a coincidence that when I began consuming the most alcohol I ever had in my life that this problem set in. Alcohol doesn't affect my daily lifestyle and by no means controls me, but I was averaging 100 miles a week and enjoyed letting loose at night and having some beers. I still drink pretty regularly now and it's hard to tell if there is an actual relation to alcohol consumption and loss of coordination as I don't remember necessarily losing coordination any sooner during a run after a night of heavy drinking.

This syndrome could arise from multiple causes, but as has been discussed previously in this thread painless loss of coordination in highly trained individuals seems to me to be most likely related to problematic functioning of the basal ganglia in the brain. That is also the most likely scenario that would produce persistent problems for years, regardless of activity or rest. This would be something akin to focal dystonia in highly trained musicians, although not having read the whole thread I'm not sure whether runners have been aware of persistent involuntary contraction of particular muscle groups. If that is the case then Botox could have some utility, although would not address the root cause of the problem. I'm not saying this is the situation for everyone, but it could be for some.

SMM wrote:

This syndrome could arise from multiple causes, but as has been discussed previously in this thread painless loss of coordination in highly trained individuals seems to me to be most likely related to problematic functioning of the basal ganglia in the brain. That is also the most likely scenario that would produce persistent problems for years, regardless of activity or rest. This would be something akin to focal dystonia in highly trained musicians, although not having read the whole thread I'm not sure whether runners have been aware of persistent involuntary contraction of particular muscle groups. If that is the case then Botox could have some utility, although would not address the root cause of the problem. I'm not saying this is the situation for everyone, but it could be for some.

Focal dystonia is not the problem. I have extensive knowledge of neurological disorders (ironic since this loss of coordination during running puzzles me). But I can assure you that everyone talking about focal dystonia on this thread is off the mark. I'll give you that it's cool to say that it could be the problem but this loss of coordination does not "act" like focal dystonia. I can run normal until fatigue. That is NOT focal dystonia.

Weird and curious. My loss of coordination started similarly after I started drinking more. But I guess that it's probably just incidental.

I do NOT drink alcohol and have experienced loss of coordination since 2007. I have completely abstained from alcohol for 6 years and only drank a few times per year prior to that. I don't think the problem is alcohol related.

Shorts are not as long as long pants

No, sorry. Same mileage, same level of intensity, same weight training, etc. as when I was in college.

Did about 80 to 110 miles per week depending on the time of year.

I have slight scoliosis so that probably made the issue worse over time.

30 years later, I can't run anymore due to back and feet issues - not debilitating, just hurts enough where I don't 'enjoy' the run. But even if I could, and train to race, my left leg just wouldn't work right.

Life goes on, it just didn't seem that way when I first encountered this issue. I then focused on my profession and family - the things that are real for me now.

Have any of you seen a vascular specialist and had the tests for iliac artery insufficiency? I think this might be the source of my "loss of coordination", no power in leg with exertion (running), I'm in my 20's, and it's my non-dominant (left) leg. Does this fit anyone else's experiences? Limitless does this fit your experience?

This is common in cyclists but is also seen in runners. This iliac artery insufficiency cuts off the supply of blood to the hip flexors during exertion. With my form, I have always used my hip flexors more. I especially use my hip flexors more on the treadmill where ironically my symptoms are usually worse. Like others, my symptoms are less on uneven/hilly trails where I speculate that I use my glutes a little more than my hip flexors (and it takes longer for the loss of coordination to happen). I am thinking about getting some tests to see if this is the case but was wondering if anyone has thought about/done this before?

I have provided one of the many links that I have found on this topic:

http://vmj.sagepub.com/content/15/6/469.full.pdf

Lower extremity conditions

External iliac artery endofibrosis

"External iliac artery endofibrosis is one of the most commonly described lower extremity vascular conditions in competitive athletes. The disease is defined as initial thickening of the external iliac artery with collagen fibers, fibroblasts and smooth muscle cells, in the absence of inflammatory or atherosclerotic lesions. In 1986, Chevalier et al. first described the condition in 23 competitive male cyclist. The external iliac artery is the most commonly affected artery, occurring in 90% of cases, with the common iliac and/or common femoral artery rarely affected. The condition more commonly affected the non-dominant limb. Cyclists are affected most frequently, although the condition is also seen in long-distance runners (Figure 3), triathletes and cross-country skiers. Patients report with a mean age of 25 years. The condition has been reported in competitive cyclist who average 8000-35000 km per year, or about 150,000 km in a lifetime." (p 473)

"Athletes typically present with an unexplained decline in performance, leg weakness and a lack of power in the affected leg. Symptoms are usually unilateral, although can be bilateral in 15% of cases. Physical examination is usually unremarkable at rest." (p 474)

It was my left leg as well. After the problem hit, I started doing my track workouts the opposite direction on the track for every other track session. No change.

Have not been checked for iliac artery insufficiency. At this point, its not worthwhile for me.

This sounds exactly like what my symptoms are like. I am also in my 20s and it affects mainly my non-dominant, right, leg. It definitely is more prevalent when I am running on a treadmill, no doubt.

And regarding a vascular specialist, I have seen one. He was not able to identify anything, unfortunately. He did an ABI test on both legs after exercise and nothing looked abnormal. I am not sure if an ABI test would reveal anything specific to what you mentioned, though.

At this point, I have had pretty much every single part of my body tested - nothing has come back. I had surgery on both legs for compartment syndrome, thinking that was the problem, but it did not fix the loss of coordination. Rather, it partially fixed the feeling of having tightness/pressure in my shins/calves.

My hunch is that it has something to do with my vascular/circulatory systems. I just cannot find anyone who is willing to put in the time to find out what is wrong.

Unfortunately I do not have the ability to have all of those tests. I wish I could have the ABI testing done. I have concluded that this is either a lower motor neuron (a reflex problem) or a circulatory issue.

Have any of you had gait analysis done? I have noticed that my most lateral hamstring (biceps femoris muscle) contracts at the wrong time during the swing phase while I'm running. I have read literature that the reflex in the hamstrings can be damaged in certain situations, particularly when fatigued. And all the surrounding musculature will turn off as a result. This has been shown in post operative knee and hip patients so I'm extrapolating a little to runners.

I also notice that sensation of "tightness", if I can call it that, starts at my TFL (the muscle right above the hip bone (aka greater trochanter)) and builds from there to the hamstrings.

So I'm always debating if it's my hip flexors or hamstrings and hip extensors that are the problem or both?

One other question. Has anyone had an inguinal ligament release? Or had a specialist assess it for a possible entrapment/compression of the femoral nerve (and/or artery)?

Wow, I've had this problem on and off for a while and I thought it was just something weird that I was dealing with. I'm kind of shocked to see that so many of you are describing exactly what I'm experiencing (lack of coordination in my non-dominant leg, feeling unable to pull it forward despite lack of aerobic strain).

Just to throw my two cents in the pool here, I had this issue during the lead up to my spring marathon this year, during which I got into the 100MPW range for a few months. Fortunately I only experienced the issue in races, tempo runs, or repeats longer than 1k. I usually tried to push through it, or take an extended rest in order to finish my workout. However, it seemed to crop up less and less as I got into better shape. I ended up taking the summer off after the marathon for a torn hamstring and the issue is clearly worse now that I have lost my fitness. Again, it seems to be improving as I get back into shape.

One striking experience I had was in a half marathon I ran as a tune up - I was in pretty good shape at this point and went out at ~5:20/mi. Around the 2 mile mark I started feeling the coordination issue creeping in. At that point I did everything I could to just try running as relaxed as possible. By mile 3-4 I was feeling mostly normal and the issue never cropped up again. I may have cut back a bit on my pace in order to relax but I still came through 10K in ~33:30. Sometimes I feel like the issue is being caused by competing muscle groups contracting at the same time and breaking up my stride. I have no hard evidence to support this, it's just how it feels sometimes. Hence why I try to relax as much as possible.

On a somewhat related note, I ran a 10K two weeks later in which I was dealing with some knee pain, and the coordination issue almost resulted in a DNF, but I slogged through the last 2 miles anyways. I felt like the addition of the knee pain prevented me from running with my usual relaxed stride and thus aggravated the coordination issue.

With that being said, now that I've lost my fitness, no amount of relaxation will allow me to run normally once it hits. Again the issue seems to be limited to longer speed work/tempos so I'm doing some strides and fartleks but mostly slow mileage in the hopes that I can get back to where I was in May.

this sounds like a nerve problem, as in something is impinging on a nerve, causing the loss of coordination. Why look to the brain when there's been no brain injury or stroke? Piriformis syndrome is something that causes a loss of coordination. I had that last year and couldn't hardly run at all. Massage helped a little bit, moving the muscle around by sitting on the edge of a step helped a bit more, rest didn't help at all, doing bridges with one foot down helped some, and doing a kind of speedskating move w/the other leg while the problem leg is in a deep one-legged squat (on a big step) helped a great deal and solved the problem, and after a month I was running normally again.

See if you can find some similar exercises that have an impact on your coordination issues.