Miss osage County
By the way, check out the 'Leg Imbalance' thread esp the posts by NateinAussie. The guy describes a hip alignment exercise that also helped me a lot.
May be for the purposes of aligning yr hip alone, this exercise will help. But as for the muscular imbalances and nervous system, u still need to do resistance work and clockwise running.....
Also try incorporating a lot more strght strides and strght out-and-back routes in yr current training. These help to brg balance to yr clockwise/counterclockwise running. You would probably still be running w a limp BUT DO NOT STOP YR RUNNING SESSIONS.
(Of course, exercise yr common sense and REST if u must, but in the long run, DO NOT GIVE UP)
IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME, PROBABLY MUCH MORE TIME THAN U OR I AM PREPARED TO SPEND, IN FIXING THE PROBLEM.
Like Alex S said in his last post, it wil take a long time to regain what is yr 'natural' movement patterns. All that I have written/suggested in this thread r by no means magical quick-cures. I agree w Alex S that abt 1 yr+ at least is needed, and even after that IT IS A LIFE-LONG PROCESS OF CONSCIENTIOUS MAINTAINANCE of that regained balance and coordination.
Just like how runners spend so much time and energy trying to find the best balance in training the various energy systems for their chosen events, and finding that the balance changes somewhat fr year to year, season to season, so is it with this loss of coordination problem.
Fr yr descriptions I would say that yr case is the CLASSIC EXAMPLE of overdoing counterclockwise running. I know what u mentioned abt yr training situation in yr school days. But maybe u shd double-check bec yr memory may not have served u that well in this situation. Sometimes we do not want to remember certain things bec they hurt too much....
Again, all the best in yr healing
Miss osage County
have you run anymore since your 7 miler?
Thanks for mentioning the other thread. I had read that before and posted as "posterior tibialis tendon". At that time I was thinking that since I would get severe foot splay, perhaps the problem was in my foot or post-tib. Now, I'm back to thinking that the foot splay is a result of the hip malalignment issue.
I'm sure you're right that it will take a lot of time to fix my problem. I don't expect something that's been going on for 4 years to be fixed overnight. I should clarify that I don't have a constant limp; I get a hitch in my step during workouts and races when my leg starts bothering me. I can be a really hard worker with my training, but I've been pretty lazy about finding help to get my problem fixed. I had multiple docs tell me it was time to hang 'em up about two years ago. (At that point, I had taken 7 months off and the problem was still there when I started running again.) After that, I was pretty gun shy to go see anyone else and just pretty much started reading and working on the problem on my own. Now, I realize that even though I'm doing tons of core work and strength work, stretching, rope work, ball work, it's still not getting better and I just have to be brave and willing to go see someone for help and hope they won't make me cry again!
As for keeping up my running sessions, I am definitely doing that. I do two quality sessions a week and a long run of 15mi/1:45 to hit 70-80mpw--- nothing too crazy, but I'm definitely not just a recreational runner. A couple examples of my training: I had a 10mile tempo to do and starting around mile3 my left leg was bothering me (fairly typical) and I've learned the trick that by running backwards for about 20 steps on each leg gives some relief and I'm ok again for awhile when I turn back around. I ended up having to do that 4x on that particular workout and still got through comfortably in 62:17. I'm fit enough that I feel good enough to go faster, but my left leg just doesn't allow me to roll along that smoothly... It's frustrating because I know I need to be able to do the threshhold work. My engine can handle it, just not my left wheel. Another workout is 10x1000m in 3:20 w/ 1:30R. I'm a week out from a race so my workout last night was less volume, faster pace: 4x1000m prescribed 3:25, 3:21, 3:16, 3:12 w/ longer recovery of 3:00, then 4x300m <51 w/ 2:00R. My actuals were 3:22, 3:14, 3:10, 3:06, 51, 51, 50, 49. However, it is difficult for me to transfer anything from a workout to a race as my leg starts bothering me as I get farther into a race distance and causes me to slow down as it sort of seizes up and cramps on the left side.
I'm all about experimenting and have tried a lot of things, so I will definitely incorporate some of the drills/exercises people on this thread have suggested. I'm already doing a lot of strength/stability work and haven't seen my symptoms lessen in the last two years, so I'm thinking the stuff that people mentioned relative to correcting the spine/sacrum (yoga, etc) would be good to try. I can strengthen the hell out of my hip, but if my SI joint is locked up and doesn't allow my leg to swing in the hip socket properly to utilize that strength, what difference would it make, right? I will continue to strength the left glut, but will try to work on the spine now as well.
Yes, I'm up to running about 5 days a week now plus a few cross training sessions. The thing is, I haven't really tested it since the 7 miler because after I talked to the massage therapist, he convinced me to wait another week or so before I try some more flat surface running. He said that the longer you have this type of injury, the longer it will take for you to get comfortable again, because the body adjusts to whatever position it is in. Since I am in a new position now, my body needs time to adjust to it.
Because I'm coming back from quite a layoff, and the fact that this injury often requires me to run at a fast velocity and/or long distance (on a flat surface) before it gets triggered, it may take 3-4 weeks before I know for sure if I'm better.
I have been following foomiler's advice and started doing some clockwise track running. Nothing crazy, I just hop on the track in the middle of some easy runs and pick up the pace for 8 laps. I feel fantastic when I run clockwise.
mlbfan - have you improved at all lately, or are things pretty much the same? Keep us updated.
foomiler- do you think I should do any counterclockwise running at all? My lifetime ratio of counterclockise to clockwise running is probably around 10,000 to 1, so I'm not sure if it's necessary if I'm just doing a few brisk miles per week on the track. At this point, I feel way better going clockwise.
Thank You foomiler! Can you describe more that nateAussies all fours movement.I´m not completely sure I do it right.
Things are pretty much the same for me, if not worse. I feel like my left hip is completely out of whack now. Some days are better than others I guess, but it's going to take a lot more detective work to figure out what's wrong with me. Unfortunately, my insurance is handicapping me from proceeding so I'm rather frustrated right now.
I reread your other posts and thought I'd respond to your comments about your symptoms. My symptoms subside immediately with rest and I never wake up with stiffness in my legs the day after. I don't ever feel any pain in my quads. My injury is just my left leg and I never have actual pain anywhere. It's simply a matter of losing control of my muscle coordination in my left leg. My left leg sort of falls open to where my knee is definitely tipped out laterally (NOT in line with my ankle) and I get severe foot splay where I'm uncontrollably toeing out. I feel like I can stride out on my right side normally, but on my left side, rather than taking a stride, my left leg just stomps straight DOWN when I try to stride OUT on it. I definitely can't control my foot strike when this starts happening. As soon as this starts up, I can keep running through determination and this leads to other things like foot spasms and cramping. If I stop for even a few seconds of quick stretching, it does go away until I try to run fast again.
Not sure if that really helps... just another case to compare yourself to... Hang in there. I feel for you.
Miss Osage County wrote:
I don't ever feel any pain in my quads. My injury is just my left leg and I never have actual pain anywhere. It's simply a matter of losing control of my muscle coordination in my left leg. My left leg sort of falls open to where my knee is definitely tipped out laterally (NOT in line with my ankle) and I get severe foot splay where I'm uncontrollably toeing out. I feel like I can stride out on my right side normally, but on my left side, rather than taking a stride, my left leg just stomps straight DOWN when I try to stride OUT on it. I definitely can't control my foot strike when this starts happening. As soon as this starts up, I can keep running through determination and this leads to other things like foot spasms and cramping. If I stop for even a few seconds of quick stretching, it does go away until I try to run fast again.
Wow. This is exactly how it happens with me. I remember when I was 18 running my first 5000m and this happened the last mile and I suffered greatly to run a 15:40. I told my coach something is wrong with my leg and if I could race without the problem I could break 15:30. Well, the only time my leg didn't "go out" as I called it, I ran 15:19. I hated my leg splaying out and refusing to work. It made the race 10 x more painful than it had to be. The worst was racing 10-milers or half-marathons. It would usually "go out" around 5 miles and I would have to just focus and suffer the rest of the way. It was horrible. Sometimes a 57 minute 10-mile ended up being harder than a 53-minute 10-miler. And my good leg would be excrutiatingly tight following the race because it had to take over and work so much harder. The asphalt was the worst. I never had the problem in XC, and was far more successful because of it. It helps to know we can relate to each other's grief, which most runners could never understand.
I've had a very similar problem for the past five years and I'm extremely close to giving up. It is so hard to explain to other people who more often than not just think I'm soft yet I'm actually hurting more than anyone.
Mine is actually right sided. It occurs in any race / tempo run over about 1500m. My hamstring feels like it stops contracting and my leg becomes all floppy. Stopping to stretch it out gives me short term relief but it resumes shortly after doing so and I have to try and battle on. My left quad starts to really ache as it attempts to compensate. I'm left with so many what if questions.
I feel as though I've got so much left to achieve in this sport and would welcome any feedback.
Miss Osage County,
Thanks for the reply. I don't have any pain either, other than my lower back from lifting something the wrong way. I think that may be contributing to my unique symptoms.
What you describe sounds like what I experienced when it first began. I think it was affecting both legs, but I can't really remember anymore since I've experienced so many strange sensations now. It was only my upper legs that were affected, but the determination and focus in order to maintain pace is very familiar, as is the spasms, cramping, and foot splay. I wouldn't wake up unusually tight in my quads, and felt fine during easy to moderate running for about 60-70 minutes. It didn't affect my racing during cross country because 8k was short enough of a duration of time before the symptoms would begin. I did notice it affected my top end speed because I couldn't kick at all.
Nowadays, if I stop at a light and stretch my hamstrings, upon resuming running (more like jogging) my legs feel like springs that I can't control. It's ridiculous. I hope everyone here can find a solution to this extrememly frustrating, painless "injury".
I just wish there was more info out there that describes what we're experiencing. This is the only place I have found anyone who understands what I am feeling.
Man I'm sorry for you injury and all but damm what were you thinking? Standing on vertically stacked cinder blocks AND swinging a sledge to knock out something? WTF!!!
Hope you get better but damm use a ladder next time.
It's great to see the latest round of posts because I don't know anybody outside of this site that has any idea what I'm going through either....and part of what has been so frustrating is that the problem is very difficult to explain or research, as mlbfan pointed out. The only thing I know is that my left leg doesn't work or feel right once I run for an extended period of time on flat pavement, and the faster I run, the quicker it happens.
To anyone thinking about giving up, I would say don't give up until you are absolutely certain you have tried everything you can possibly try to get better. I'm almost a year into this injury and I'm finally at the point where I'm mostly comfortable running on a flat surface. I wasn't sure this day would ever come.
I have had the same problem for nearly 5 years. I noticed the strange uncontrollable feeling in my right leg when I ran for extended periods of time (greater than 45 min for me) on flat straight sections of road. I spent 4 years trying to fix this. I was diagnosed with LLD anterior pelvic tilt...but orthotics lifts did not help. I switched to flats... which helped some but I ended up with other injuries (may or may not be related to flats). I still occasionally get symptoms but I try not to focus on them. I found that when I was stressed and focusing on the ailment (waiting for my leg to act up) things alwasy got worse. I wish I had the answers for all of you but I don't and I still have issues.
free menus. takes some time and a lot of dedication as far as doing the routines every day. It will balance your body as a whole instead of trying to fix one leg or another.
It is worth your time, and although I have never used the online program or been to the clinics, the free menus have worked for myself and others I have directed there.
The philosophy is to treat the body as one unit. If the pelvis is unlevel, then there are muscles firing too much and some not firing at all. good luck to everyone, I feel for you - took me 3 years to find a physician who could straighten me out, but now I am running as much as I want to, speed work, plyometrics, etc. I was resigend to trying to get in 30 minutes 3-4 times a week before that. miracle.
This is a muscle imbalance, and it is not fixable.Your left glute med is so weak that when you land on our left foot the glute med muscles never kicks in ,and you will fall to that side until something says ok we need to move forward then your TFL will kick in causing your pelvis to shift to that side.At this point your whole left leg gets pulled closer to the center of your body.your right side may even pull up and back.Your left thigh muscle will get shorter pulling down on your pelvis even more.Your right back muscle will get so tight that your SI joint will be stuck.You could run counter clock wise, sideways, backwards, no shoes, orthotics,and anything else it is not fixable.I have been to every doctor and seen just about everyone.The very last person was a great pt and he finally said it is not treatable.Keep trying to run and the hip will have to be replaced.Its all the glute med muscle.You can't get it stronger without your TFL kicking in its useless.FINALLY YOUR GLUTE MED SHUTS DOWN.Your left hamstring becomes long and weak.Then you limp.There may not be any pain but you just limp.The faster you go the more you limp.Your left psoas muscle gets short.I could ramble even more.I am very sorry.It crushes me too.I wish I had 1 day of a good run.It just isn't fair.
I think your description is accurate of the problem but what do you mean it is not fixable? If it is a muscle imbalance like you say it is, then why can't that be fixed?
Honestly, I feel that if you're able to describe that well what is going on physiologically, there has to be a way to reverse it. At least, I'm going to continue believing there is hope for us. What happens when you focus on strengthening your glute medius?
mlbfan - I forgot to suggest earlier that you take a look at your shoulder symmetry. My left shoulder was approximately one centimeter higher than my right (this was pointed out to me by a doctor a while ago and it was very obvious looking in a mirror). I don't know to what extent (if any) this contributed to my problem, but the massage therapist I went to fixed it through a combination of massage and stretching.
my right shoulder drops as well. what's weird about it is that is a symptom of having a shorter left leg, but I have always been told my right leg is slightly shorter. how did you find your massage therapist?