Loss of coordination in leg - Official runner's dystonia / focal dystonia discussion thread

track dude and mlbfan24,

If you've truly read my last posts, u would not be asking these questions.

Your bad leg's ITB is short and tight, along with the rectus femoris. The tight ITB is what causes the hip to turn outwards when u train your hamstrings and when u run. It quite simply pulls the hip outward and externally rotates it, bec your iliopsoas is also short and tight. U r now back to where we started right at the beginning of this thread, bec the short and tight hip flexors r NOT YET DEALT WITH. No amount of strength training and/or rest time is going to change that.

The still short hip flexors creates an effective short leg on your left side and so when you stand/walk/run, it is always having to reach further downwards than the other leg. When that happens, the body's natural reflex is to supinate the foot in anticipation of impact that is going to deviate from its centre of gravity In this case inwards across the body's mid-line). This taxes the ITB severely and causes the band to tighten up from overuse. If u do not already feel some sensation on yr ITB, it is only a matter of time b4 something there blows. Again, no rehab is going to work unless you DEAL WITH THE SHORTENED AND INHIBITING HIP FLEXORS!!!!!!

This has been discussed time and again to exhaustion on this thread; were u paying any attention?

Also, most ITB problems do not necessarily come from track curve running or running on cambered surfaces. If your upper body is misaligned somewhere, this can transfer all the way down to your hips and cause a short leg/pelvic tilt to occur. You need to fix whatever is misaligned from neck down to get true relief. Again, I believe this has been discussed till overkill in the previous twenty-odd pages on this thread. Have u taken any of the advice posted on this subject seriously?

Are u truly willing to do what the condition requires of you to get well, or are u only prepared to only go as far as what suits your own comfort level?

foomiler-

I really do appreciate your efforts in trying to help myself and everyone else on this thread. You've been able to explain much of the physiology far better than I ever could. It's very frustrating because no amount of self massage treatment has loosened up my IT band or rectus femoris. Every morning I wake up with tightness in these areas. I do have a few questions though.

It has always been my understanding that short, tight muscles are in effect, too strong, and long, stretched out muscles are weak. In my case, I feel like many of the muscles in my left leg are long and weak, although it is true that my IT band is tight. I also feel as though my hamstring and glute are tight yet they are extremely weak and half the time don't even fire correctly or at all while I run.

Also, in your last post you mentioned the left leg crossing the midline of the body upon supination, but I have the opposite problem. My left leg is landing away from my center of gravity.

And finally, I'm pretty sure I have a posterior tilt on my left side and an anterior tilt on my right side. My right leg feels smooth and strong as I run, but my left one feels so weak and shakey that eventually, my right leg starts to tire as well but not until the end of a run.

Another strange sensation I experience is the lack of my hamstrings firing as my leg is pulled forward by my hip flexors. This does not happen all the time, but when it does, it feels as though my leg is flying forward uncontrollably. I know the hamstrings act as a decelerator during this phase of running, so I can only assume my hamstring is either shut down or is locked up and unable to fire. This happens on both legs at times, and it does not necessarily correlate to the duration of the run. During my worst days, it may happen right from the start.

I injured my lower back in November of 2006 while lifting at the gym, and still have trouble with it to this day. I've noticed when my back flares up, my legs follow suit and I have a very difficult time running. Could this whole thing be related to possible nerve damage as well? I'm beginning to think it is, because I cannot seem to find a starting point muscularly.

When my leg problem first began last Fall, prior to my back injury, I would begin a run feeling normal, but about an hour into the run, my quads would turn to jello and I would lose coordination. Post run, I would have quad stiffness and fatigue.

Now, I feel awkward from the start, and instead of there being a specific moment in time that I lose coordination, it is a gradual onset that is very slight at first, and gets worse as I run. During my worst bouts, it feels like my muscles lock up from my lower back down through my hips, quads, and hamstrings.

I know I just threw a lot at you, but I wanted to give you a better idea of what I'm experiencing. Honestly, I could probably write page after page about what I'm experiencing. I'm pretty much on my own now, since my insurance is terrible and I can't really afford to proceed with trial and error testing through various doctors.

foomiler,

I really appreciate all of your input as well but I am just at a loss as to what exactly I should do because I have tried so many different treatment options and have not had a ton of success. For a while I was seeing an ART chiropractor who was focusing on my rectus femoris and IT band but after 18-20 sessions I cut my losses. I have also experimented with foam rollers and the TP massage ball for a while, focusing on my quads and IT band, but it did not seem to help. Furthermore, I received personalized Egoscue menus for 7 months and even visited their HQ office and quad/hip flexor stretches were incorporated into them. I was spending over an hour a day on it, 7 days a week and I just reached a point where I got completely burnt out because it was not making a difference. However today I followed the Egoscue IT band menu that you recently provided and I will stick with that for a couple of weeks to see if it helps. I would do the Posetech IT band exercise but couldn't find any pictures on the website.

You have mentioned a "short leg" from time to time and I'm not sure if you mean that the hip flexors and ITB create the symptoms of a short leg, or you are talking about an actual short leg, but I am quite certain that I do not have any type of leg length discrepancy, whether anatomical or functional...at least none of the specialists I've seen have detected it or seen any type of pelvic tilt.

One thing that I have been experiencing for a while is very sore lower abs which definitely gets worse the more I run. Not sure how that is related to things.

Your suggestion about 'pulling up' rather than 'pushing off' when running I think is a good one and it's very possible that I got into trouble from emphasizing knee lift. In fact right before this injury nearly two years ago I was lifting weights with emphasis on the quads and doing regular drills to lift up my knees because an experienced runner told me it was good for me.

For the time being I will follow the Egoscue IT band menu and continue my weight workouts emphasizing hamstrings and glutes. Anything else I should do would be appreciated.

i really have no idea, but i'm throwing it out there as one more possibility: popliteal artery entrapment. i am not sure this quite fits your symptoms, but read up on it and see if it makes any sense. as for track dude, i don't think my own symptoms are the same as either of you, but i have noticed of late what seems a recourse of the fatigue in the anterior aspect of my left leg before i had surgery for compartment syndrome. pulling as opposed to pushing off, so to speak, at first seemed to improve things, but ultimately i still have good deal of trouble. good luck to both of you and anyone else with this, or any other problem.

I went to the gym tonight to lift weights after an extremely frustrating 6 mile run in which my legs crapped out on me with 2 miles to go. It took incredible concentration to keep going, yet, even though I picked up the pace quite a bit the last mile, it didn't really get any worse.

Anyways, I did the seated leg press, hamstring curls, leg extension, and calf raises and did 3 sets of 12 reps for each leg individually. I definitely have strength imbalances in my legs. Most notably, my left hamstring is extremely weak compared to my right. My left one felt like it was cramping up halfway through each set and I struggled to finish 12 reps each time, whereas my right one felt smooth and would begin to fatigue slightly by the 10th or 11th rep. My legs feel fairly even on the leg extension, with perhaps my left leg being slightly weaker than my right. The weakness is also quite noticeable while performing the seated leg press and calf raises.

I think I'm going to continue doing this 3-4 times a week if I can get to a gym that often. Perhaps I'll be able to even out the strength issues over time, but I really don't know if that'll solve anything.

I'm at my wits end over this since I can't even seem to find a starting point. It makes no sense to me whatsoever how I can go from running a 10 mile tempo run on a flat bike path, be forced to take 3 days off due to being ill, and consequently be unable to to complete a 6 mile jog without my legs severely tightening and losing coordination. I honestly don't know how much longer I can handle this, since I no longer have any school or team obligations in running.

foo miler,

I am a division 1 runner who has just recently over the past week developed this exact same problem in my left leg. I have always naturally pronated in on the insides of my feet when I ran but now my left leg is totally out of whack and I have basically completely lost my stride. I have been freaking out over the past week about it because my running has suffered and this was supposed to be a big season for me track wise. You seem to know quite a good bit about this issue and i was wondering if I could get your email to further talk with you about it. This is something I wanna kick as soon as possible since I have just recently been experiencing it. I am willing to do and put in whatever work necessary to permanantly rid myself of this as well. Any one else out there who has had success with kicking this problem I would also appreciate you help to. Thank god I saw this thread cause at this point I was feeling hopeless.

Your information is right on to what is going on with me.My PT says it is my left glute med muscle(that is the side my pelvis is tilted).i am shifted down on the left and turned inward.my right hip is pushed back.my left leg has moved to the center of the body and my left quad and tfl are alot more developed on my left.My hamstring on the left is tight my itb on left is tight even though it tends to hurt on right.is this a glute med problem?when i run i lean terrible to the left.it will on activate sometimes but when the left side can get so tight it hardly can bend.

Andy B,

do u know how to kick this problem????

Maybe - thanks for throwing out the suggestion about the popliteal artery entrapment. That does kind of fit what I have had to some degree except my condition is completely painless. There has definitely been some off and on tingling of my left foot. I would like to believe that I was ruled out for vascular problems, as I went to see a vascular surgeon. Right away he said that he didn't think there was a vascular issue because he felt a strong pulse on my left ankle. Then he performed a doppler test up and down my leg and said everything was normal. Both the vascular surgeon and neurologist that I went to think it is some type of "biomechanical issue."

mlbfan - I think 3-4 times per week is too frequent for the weight training. You'll drive yourself crazy feeling even more fatigued on your runs. I do feel like the strength training has helped me...at least on my easy runs, but as soon as I open things up and run faster, the problem is still there.

I wish I had an answer. I have been stuck like this for over 2 years. I posted on page #9 or so and responded that there was no cure. There is a lot to be said about the quad and the tfl being the culprit. I will never argue that. Finding out why is the biggest problem. Why are all of us on here saying my left quad is bigger, my left tfl is over devolved and my right psoas is tight? Let’s look at the left weakness. What happens when I stand on my left foot is my right pelvis is pulled way back and my left pelvis is pulled down. The left side is pulled down because of the tight quad muscle as was discussed previous. Why? Why am I using that quad and tfl?It is a weak glute med muscle on left side. The tfl and quad are trying to do the work of a weak glute med. if my left glute med was stronger my left quad and tfl would not have to try to level out the pelvis during my single leg stance. Why is my Achilles tendon sore?

Foomiler. Had a great point on when he said they attach at the knee. I really never thought of it that way. When you loose strength in your glute med your shin muscles must work extremely hard to compensate. This will cause tarsal tunnel, shin splints, and Achilles tendon problems. Listen to Foomiler not me. I am not a doctor or a PT.I do recommend seeing Ron Hruska in Lincoln Nebraska. He put me in a leg brace and strengthens my left hamstring to try to pull my pelvis back. The only problem why it did not work because I have bipartite patella tendon on my left knee. The quad was so tight it started to pull my kneecap apart. He looked at me and said running was not for me anymore. He could have screwed me and kept me coming back. He could have made me orthiotics.I still run all wobbly and out of wack.i do glute med exercises everyday. I am getting stronger. I will never be the same. I visit this post very often. I hope someday someone will have the answer. Foomiler please keep posting. Your information is greatly needed.

Andy B,

I appreciate the response greatly. I am slowly coming to the realization that my carreer as a Division 1 runner is coming to an end. It's crazy how one day I was running great and hammering tempo's at 5 minute pace and the next day I can barely run because my leg is all out of whack. I am going to take your advice and try to contact the guy you told me about. I have a appointment with a really well known chiro tomorrow so hopefully he can do something. I think my problem may have to be more with my hips and an SI joint problem because it seems like all of a sudden my right leg has gotten a little shorter than my left because of tightness in my IT band and my lower back. I believe that is what is causing all the stress in my left leg, because it is longer than the right due to the tightness in the right, and it is causing the left leg to do more work because it is striking the ground harder than the right. It's great that this forum can be used for good and that all us runners can stick together and try to solve problems as a whole. I believe thats why we are different from others. I am hoping foomiler gets back on here cause it seems like he knows alot and I havent gotten to talk to him yet. Thanks again to all and hopefully we can find a solution to this.

runninhard247-

Your college career is only over if you let this stop you. Fortunately, this thread has been around for quite awhile now, so if you haven't already, read through the entire thread. There is a lot of information on here that will help you eliminate certain options in regards to your situation. Keep in mind that, although many of us on here are experiencing something very similar, we most likely have varying causes as to why this is happening. This will help you in determining how to approach your recovery. Assuming you do not have any other symptoms in addition to coordination loss, it is most likely an issue of strength and balance.

I have had this a few years ago, and it comes and goes. From what I have read, very similar symptoms to what is described.

I was a decent D1 runner (14:00 - 5k), and I was training for outdoor track in 1999 (post collegiate, graduated 1997). Lots of indoor track running in the winter, and I would have intermittent issues. I had to drop out of a 5k at Stanford when I was on 13:45 pace at two miles. Thought it was just a freak thing. Then, later in the spring, I started running road races. At about 3 miles into a 5 mile, my leg "went out". Very frustrating, and I ended up taking second in 24:13. I had no idea what happened, and no idea it would change my running for the next 8 years.

Long story short, I pretty much had to stop training and just ran a little here and there. My running became very unpredictable. Some good months. Some horrible. My overall fitness carried me for a while, but eventually I could not compete anymore. I have been to many doctors, specialists, chiros, and applied kinesiologists (I don't believe in them, but was willing to try anything).

Now, looking back, it was always made worse by track workouts. My left Glute is really weak, and always has been. I'm only 34, and I'm trying some of the strengthening workout as described, and I feel stronger, but I will never be "fast" again. Not a big issue, as I have a very full life, but always wanted to break 14 in the 5k.

Anthony,

What types of symptoms did you have? I like you would have loved to eventually achieve similar goals although i was not quite there yet. I am trying my best to get through this injury. I dont understandand how it could be such a permanent thing that people have experienced and hopefully I am the exception. If you have any advice on fixing it Ii would love to hear it. Thanx

I've been reading a lot on the internet about pelvis dysfunction and asymmetry. This is the latest avenue in regards to treatment that I will be exploring further. My advice is to find an osteopath or physiotherapist who specializes in symmetry of the body. Unless you have other symptoms that point to a disease such as muscular dystrophy (which I highly doubt), this problem is most likely an issue of asymmetry.

I think my next avenue will be an osteopath as well. The only thing that concerns me is that I do occasionally feel some electric shock sensations on my right forearm when the problem kicks in, even though my running issues are all on the left side. This has lead me to wonder if it is some type of disease, especially since a doctor once told me that the nerves in the forearm are not connected to the nerves in the opposite leg. The problem is I can't get any doctor to take me seriously since I look healthy and don't have symptoms outside of running.

track dude-

I don't feel any electrical sensations in my right arm, but I do occasionally feel numbness while running. I haven't really paid much attention to it though. My right arm is weaker than my left, even though I am predominantly right handed. I think it may have something to do with my body trying to balance itself out, because my right leg is stronger than my left, yet my left arm is stronger than my right.

My symptoms were very similar to what has been mentioned.

When it was really bad, I could feel the weakness even when just walking around. It felt like I had a flat tire in my right leg. It can be best described as a sensation of isolated fatigue, but not any numbness or pain.

Other days, I would go for a run, legs felt perfect, then about 2-4 miles into the run, I would get the sensation of weakness, then minutes later my leg would start flopping around and I could not push off effectively. It is SO frustrating as the rest of me felt fine. I would walk for a while, then it was ok for a mile or so again. I got back home that way many times.

Running on trails or varied terrain always made it better. Straight roads were the worst. Training faster also made it worse. I remember in 2000, I could not even finish a 5 mile run without walking, but I ended up 24th in the US cross country champs in the 12k.

Running with partners was also hard. Especially when about 7 miles into a run, I would have to pull up lame. I actually had to fake an injury or something, as I could not explain what was wrong. (um, my leg doesn't work. What!!??)

Time has healed a lot for me. I don't get it very extreme as before, but I run about 30 miles a month. I am planning on running a marathon sometime soon, so I'm excited to try some of these exercises and get back to some level of training.

A couple of years ago I did a 20 mile race and had no issues, but with the lack of training it tore me up. I'm planning on staying away from training normal on the track, but I do like the idea of running clockwise.

Regarding being permanent, I have done virtually nothing to help balance my body, as I did not have the right knowledge. I did yoga for years, but without the purpose of trying to balance my body for this specific problem. I have always known I am asymmetrical (one shoulder is blatantly higher than the other), but I think people on this board have figured out what you need to do to get this better.

You have to be diligent, as your body got that way for a reason. I have done countless laps on the track, and many of them indoors. That is not going away with a few small exercises you do occasionally.