good to hear!
good to hear!
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mlbfan - how has your running been going? are you still able to do 6 mile tempo runs without a problem?
I took your suggestion and bought a pair of spikes and started incorporating sprint workouts into my training. I'm doing 6-8*100 3 or 4 times a week and I do a hard set of 200s once a week. I have no problems sprinting in spikes, in fact it might be the only running I can do where I feel 100% normal.
My running is going decently. The problem is definitely still there, although I rarely feel as though I'm about to lose coordination. My main problem right now is is extreme fatigue and weakness in my quads and a slow recovery rate that prevents me from doing double days.
I have only run one other flat 6 mile tempo run since my last post because I ran some hard hilly runs the other weeks. That tempo run went pretty well, although at around 3 miles I started to feel some slight cramping in my upper hamstrings and hips, and was ready to stop if I lost coordination, but it ended up going away about a half mile later and I finished the tempo run fine.
I ran a flat 5k road race on the 4th of July, and although I was 50 seconds off of my PR, I never felt like I was about to lose coordination. My quads still felt weak though. My recovery following the race is what bothered me. The next day I ran about 7.5 pretty easy, but my quads were so trashed I felt like if I ran any farther, I'd lose coordination.
Let me know if the sprints help you feel better on your distance days.
"The problem is definitely still there, although I rarely feel as though I'm about to lose coordination. My main problem right now is is extreme fatigue and weakness in my quads and a slow recovery rate..."
this is pretty much where I am. when doing normal runs i feel that my quad is weak at the beginning and eventually feels normal by the end of the run. i have not got to the point where i loose coordination, though at times i feel that i am on the brink when running faster runs (ex. 6 miles at 5:55 pace). the pace of normal runs is now faster as i am transitioning into collegiate training.
going to see a very good PT in my area this week to see what he has to say
good news update!
I ran a hard 4 mile tempo on flat asphalt to see where my leg was at. started out slow at 5:41, then cut down to 5:24, 5:16, and 5:28 for a total time of 21:49. i died aerobically/anaerobically rather than having my right leg shut down. This is the same 4 mile out and back than I ran last track season in 22:19 (when I was probably in better aerobic shape than I am now) where my leg started bothering me with 2 miles to go, then shut down with a mile to go. This time leg started to go bad in the last 500 meters, then shut down with maybe 100 to go- which is significant progress in my opinion. After streching for a minute, I was able to go on a 4 mile cooldown with no problems. also after this tempo I am certain that this is not a pinched nerve problem.
things i have been doing (in the order in which i think they help the most):
Glute Med Exercises- (hip raises with ankle weight 2 X 70 on each side: one leg on stair, other leg hanging off etc...)
Hip Flexor Exercises- holding leg at 90 degree angle 3 X 45 seconds on each leg with 7.5 pound ankle weight.
Egoscue- Airbench in morning and evening for 2:00 (this burns your quads and many other leg muscles)
Running daily easy runs at faster pace (6:30-7:00)
Running on track clockwise. (twice a week. fast around curves slow on staights)
Eliptical Trainer/Stationary bike- I don't do this very often maybe once every two weeks, but when i do my bad leg's quad and upper glute begin to burn after about 8-10 minutes)
Lifting weights. (once a week, only hamstrings and quads as i don't have access to any other machines that work abductors or hip flexors)
All in all I'm not completely cured, but I feel I am experiencing reduced symptoms.
good to hear. how often do you do the excercises? i've been getting a lot of improvement after getting an orthotic...
so it seems the problem is related to a weakened glut med (from what I've found) Some other interesting discussions on the topic:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=1325744&thread=1262453
http://www.pponline.co.uk/forum/talk-performance/isolating-gluteus-medius
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i do the glute med exercises 2-3 times daily
daily? wow doesn't your leg get fatigued for your runs?
it feels weak some days but it never slows me down or loses coordination on easy days or longs runs
hskid--i've been doing the glute med excercise ("hip hikes") and have felt definate improvement. i'm not 100%, but I definately feel a solid change for the better.
Do you do the exercise with weights? How many sets and reps?
i haven't tested my leg in a while, but i know i still have the problem. the only "fast run" i have done recently was a 10 miler at 5:58 pace. never lost coordination, but my bad leg just feels awkward from the first step i take- doesn't slow me down- but something isn't right. my left leg (good leg) is so smooth, and my bad leg just feels choppy and unbalanced. i've been running faster than ever in workouts, and i've actually been able to prolong the amount of time where the leg problem kicks in over the last few months, but what's going on??
i went to see one of the most experienced runner/pt guys in my city two days ago and he was very convinced that it was a minor inpingement(sp?) in my psoas or quad that could be easily fixed. he did an hour long session working on my groin, psoas, quad, hamstring, and piriformis, which was the most painful session of therapy i have ever been through. i felt nerve impulses down my quad into my foot at certain times that were close to unbearable.
i still do not think it is inpingement, but i figured he knows more than I do, and the sesson was worth it since it was different than anything i have done, and he is a very nice guy and a great local runner. was it worth the money? i hope so.
my last hope is to see this guy:
http://www.eliterehab.com/bios/Mike.php
who is supposedly very good, and very dedicated to helping others get through their injuries (keeping in contact months after). i have an appointment aug.1 -
i'm really desparate as you can see, but im at a point where i either have to get it fixed or not race XC competetively and only run the 800/1500/3000 in track. my strongest event in college would definitely be the 5k and XC if my leg was not an issue, so i'm a little bummed at this point. i only have 53 400 speed so i dont think i could ever be a great 1500 runner, but i know i have the aerobic to be a great 5k runner.
i check this thread so regularly hoping for a cure that it's probably unhealthy.
Let us know how the PT sessions go. The PT that I saw over a year ago was unable to find anything wrong with me, but she suggested that I get a 2nd opinion. I give her credit for being honest though.
Unfortunately I feel like I am at the point where I can say that the Egoscue program that I have been following has not been helping. I'll probably give it another couple of weeks, but I think it's about time to move on and try something else. I am getting tired spending an hour a day on something that doesn't seem to help.
I went to a vascular surgeon a few weeks ago and of course he found nothing wrong with me either. The one thing that he did say was that he was almost certain it was a neuromuscular problem. I've gone back and forth many times on whether I agree with him, but I think he's probably right because I do feel nerve sensations in my bad leg from time to time.
My next plan is to visit a biomechanics lab where I can get a gait analysis. Maybe they can pinpoint a specific problem area.
track dude--I use an 8 pound ankle weight and do either two sets of 40-50 or one set of 70. (each leg)
hskid--Just in case you haven't looked into this...you might be feeling some akwardness and choppiness due to tightness in your lower back and hip flexor (this is the case for me). you're not losing coordination because your stregnth is good, but you are lacking in some flexibility. For me, propping myself up on my elbows with my legs on the floor for about 3 minutes followed by 20 press ups (face on the ground and then use your arms to press your body up so that your face is facing forward and your pelvis remains on the ground). Also, I've found that strides help a lot. This may not be the case, however, I'm just throwing it out there.
sounds like it's worth a try. the PT I went to a couple days ago noticed that my good side was tight and strong and my bad side was stretched out and weak.
today: I rode a stationary bike for about 35 minutes with some hard 1-2 minute pickups with resistance and my bad quad just felt more fatigued than the other thoughout the workout. i am doing equal strengthining exercises on both legs so I am curious as to why I felt this way. is one leg doing more of the work? or is my bad quad just weak? i'll post again after I see that PT aug. 1st or if i see subtle changes.
Anyone of u considered checking yr left illiotibial band? (For those who have weaker right gluteus medius)
I've found that a tight or overused left ITB and TFL will contribute greatly to the right glute med problem, particularly if u overdo track left turns. The ITB on yr left needs to work harder to keep yr left leg fr over-adducting on the turns and over time this can lead to weakness and strain. Many pple get left ITBS fr overdoing trackwork.
What happened to me, I believe, was many years of cumulative track speedwork that led to a progressively overused left ITB/TFL, that pulled down real hard on my left pelvis. The right glute med therefore had to work extra hard to hold down the pelvis on the right side. Over time, the right GM gave out and became lengthened and weakened from over straining. I recall one particular session at the teack where my right psoas and outer hamstrings suddenly 'pulled up' towards the pelvis and fr that day onwds was visibly shorter and tighter. From that day my stride felt super weird and imbalanced.
I never realised it had some reason to do with my left ITB till I started getting butt pain on the left, and my left adductors got real big and tight. I initially thght it was just butt pain due to sciatica (wh was involved anyway I think) and puting too much weight on the left hip on the track turns. It took 2 yrs b4 I realised that it was the left ITB pulling down on the entire left hip area, causing tightness to the adductors and gluteus complex. The real telling sign was a slight rubbing feeling at the left knee epicondyle wh is usually a sign of ITBS setting in.
When I started treatment for right glute med, progress was initially good but I hit an extended plateau that saw me still somewhat uncoordinated when I run. My right GM was obviously very strong at that point but I was puzzled why my left leg was still 'longer' and why my left butt still hurt.
Then I came across anrticle on the POSE technique on the web and started converting to Pose running. Pose requires that u build up a strong core and hips/hamstrings and I spent a year-plus doing just that, even though I have always worked hard on those areas b4 the problem started. But it was when I read an article by Nicholas Romanov abt a particular ITB exercise that I realised that my left ITB was the next crucial piece of the puzzle.
I had been puzzled as to why my left hip was always 'abducting' when I ran and why my right hip was always being 'lifted' higher than normal each time my left foot landed. I was also puzzled as to why this doesn't occur with the other side.
Extended research revealed that I needed to work not only on right GM (and core strength, TVA, etc), but also the left ITB wh had been an equal culprit for all my woes at the same time. This explained why when I tried clockwise runs on track initially, nothing really changed; because my left ITB was still overstrained (though not quite full-blown ITBS yet) and it was still counteracting on my right GM's work.
Stretching alone on the ITB is insufficient (though never a bad idea). I think some of those exercises on Egoscue, esp the hooklying hip flexor lifts, abduction/adduction, could work well in this direction. Romanov's ITB strenghtening ex has also been effective for me(check out the POSE website for this article).
Just some thoughts for those who might still be stuck....
wow weird...just before I read this I got done rubbing out my left IT band with a nalgene bottle because it's been giving me trouble.