THOUGHTLESS FASCISM IN NY CITY! A question for those over the age of 25

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the test scores are public knowledge, not some mysterious information that lowly vassals like me can pick and choose to our own advantage. What I was not allowed to view was the AP Exam my students were taking, so we have the task of preparing students for an exam which we don't see. I see no basis for your snide tone if you understand the situation.

Thanks for your kinds words, in all sincerity. I understand the immense problems of public schools in CA; I teach in Iowa, which has some pretty good public schools. Good enough where I know people who move back here during their kids years of education to take advantage of them. Where I live, two kinds of families tend to send their kids to the local Catholic school (my city is 80% Catholic): Those who have a strong faith and view education as an extension of that (which I support wholeheartedly), and those who are "elitists" and don't want Johnny and Susie to go to school in the same school where Pedro, Maria, Jermaine and Shaquita go.

It's too bad public schools can't toss out the students who consistently interfere with others' right to learn more easily. And even in challenging environments, most students there want to learn. Unfortunately, some schools have to deal with so many of these types of students that their whole concept of education is distorted.

Mtn Dew wrote:

Yes, that study was crap. Even if it were true public schools outspend their private counterparts 3 to 2.

Why is the study crap, because you don't agree with it?

What do you mean if it is true...

Go to the Department of Education website and look it up yourself.

Go to CNN.com and look it up yourself.

Go to every major newspaper and they had a story on it a few months ago.

This isn't made up like your data...This is FACT...i know you don't want to believe it but it is true...

You are so ignorant of where most of the money in public schools go to. The upper and middle class kids that go to public schools do not get very much money spent on them (they don't need it). The Special education kids or kids with learning Disablities recieve around 75 percent of all the money that goes into public schools for differant services.

So in review public schools educate the upper and middle class students better than private schools and with probably the same amount of money. Also Public schools usually can offer more alternative classes (AP, IB, extra curricular) than private schools. Mainly because private schools can't pay the teachers.

No ONe is arguing with you that private schools probably have a better environment than public schools mainly because THEY DO NOT HAVE TO EDUCATE EVERYONE....

Private schools are great institutions for education and I'm all for them but do not try to say that they teach students better until you can back it up with data. Right now the data supports public education over private. Who knows this might change when it does my opinion will change to because the data supports it.

1. You are right, I never read the study. Interesting, not what I would call unbiased, but interesting.

2. I am glad the study supports your view, but as I stated my opinions are based upon experience. Experience I gained by being a student at both public and private schools, experience gained when my kids (will, kid - my younger ones will only go to private school). Experience of about 80% of my friends who are also parents (some are happy with their public schools, I am not saying my opinion in a universal rule - how can I? I don't have a study to cite).

3. Not everyone puts blind faith into studies. Not even your cited study:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/forster200505120815.asp

4. I prefer to put my faith in my own observations and experiences. I could easily find studies that counter your beloved one (e.g.

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/140574

) but because they too could be driven by a bias, created with pre-determined outcomes in mind or just flawed, I will read them but not merely parrot them.

5. Then again, since you seem to like studies, you may find the following interesting as in light of your above statement about vouchers:

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ewp_02.htm

Wow, a study by the Department of Education came to the conclusion that private schools weren't any better. Kind of like Pat Robertson coming out with a study saying Jesus is better than Mohammed. Even if the study wasn't the product of a huge conflict of interest it would still show private schools are better because they are much more cost effective.

"Private schools are great institutions for education and I'm all for them but do not try to say that they teach students better until you can back it up with data. Right now the data supports public education over private. Who knows this might change when it does my opinion will change to because the data supports it."

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Papers/PEPG06-02-PetersonLlaudet.pdf

http://www.self-gov.org/freeman/8906payn.html

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/research/privateschools.html

http://www.pkblogs.com/educationwonk/2006/07/private-vs-public-schools-new-study.html

(interesting insight):

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040922-122847-5968r.htm

(not necessarily just the U.S.):

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5224

And a lot of otehr information:

http://www.heartland.org/PolicyBotTopic.cfm?artTopic=424

What are private achools better at doing?

Scratch that, I see that the Dept of Ed didn't conduct the study itself. I had read a few weeks ago that they did. Either way it's not valid for many reasons. First- and the authors put it in the study itself- one cannot conclude from this analysis that public schools are more effective at promoting student growth than private schools.

One biased, flawed study does not show that public schools are better.

apples wrote:

What are private achools better at doing?

Educating children on how to write, read, do math, understand science. YOu know, what schools are supposed to be in the business of doing. Of course, private schools do all this on a smaller budget.

I can't believe some people. If I told someone they could have their child educated for 12 years in a random public school and a random private school only a negligent parent would opt for the public school.

I chose private schools for my child for reasons other than education.

Discipline - If she violates the code of conduct, she is out. There are no "Steve Howe" second, third, or fifteenth chances.

Safety - When have you ever heard about shootings, bomb threats, narc-sniffing dogs, or metal detectors at Our Blessed Lady of Lourdes Parish School?

Focus - The school focuses nearly the entire budget on the classroom. No excessive administrative costs, free lunches, transportation, social services programs, etc.

Values - I am by no means a mindless fundamentalist but I am very happy that the school spends time backing up the values, ethics, and respect for others that I teach at home.

Connection - As parents, her mother and I are each required to do twenty volunteer hours a year at the school. That insures our investment in her progress and that her teachers know us and we know them.

Accountability - The school sees me as a paying customer hence, they insure that I get value for my money via regular communication, a longer school year (more classroom days vs. public, no "in-service" days forcing me to burn PTO / money so teachers can attend what amounts to union rallies), and they actively seek my input on service improvements.

My kid is no smarter or no better educated than public kids but I do believe she gets more personal attention and an environment that is more conducive to learning. I also appreciate that I am seen as pivotal to her success and not just some dumb taxpaying schlub who needs to shut the hell up, fork over more money, and let the schools do whatever they want.

Interesting. I'm not sure why you seem to be so defensive about public schools. I didn't come out like others posters with a blanket, "They SUCK!" statement. I just listed why I chose private over public. I understand that the public system gets saddled with tons of add-on social services and bureaucracy. When I compared the public district I live in vs. parochial schools, I got a better vibe with private and it has been worth the cost. (Less than what we paid for daycare interestingly enough.)

Your "arguments" about molesting priests are intellectually shallow. While that does grab headlines, I seem to see more and more about horny married teachers nailing students and principals trolling for youngins' in chatrooms. It makes for sensational copy but is statistically insignificant compared to the total number of educators much like a handful of rouge priests or ministers doesn't indict the entire clergy.

Good luck to your children in their future endeavors and kudos to you for being involved. If more public school parents thought and acted like you, this debate probably would not even exist.

PT Multi wrote:

Good luck to your children in their future endeavors and kudos to you for being involved. If more public school parents thought and acted like you, this debate probably would not even exist.

And therein lies the problem, what do all of you "private schools will solve of our educational needs" people say about the vast number of students whose parents don't care a whit about their child's education? Do you honestly think a private school can make that much of a difference when the parents won't make the first effort to meet the school halfway?

And I'm prepared for the stock answer: "At our school, parents have to get involved." But what if you're "vouchered" with these kids, and they WON'T? And you HAVE to find a way to deal with them?

Over fifty wrote:

Did not have them, did not have cable, the internet, QVC, HSN, nor hybrid vehicles. We did however have our own unecessary war: vietnam.

We don't NEED them. Americans are convinced we have to own all sorts of s*it that is not necessary.

yea yea you tell them,,, wait a second....does Over Fifty realize that his old ass is using a computer to post on a running website???? I guess he doesn't need technology either.