"There were 10 committed runners in town, but I was the only real athlete training."

Does Wittenberg truly believe that it's a lack of funding that's keeping people like Ritzenhein, the ones "coming out of college who have the best shot of winning gold medals", from contending for medals? Those are the ones who have plenty of money right off the bat from sponsorship contracts, do they really need more and will it make the difference in winning a gold medal?

Those who run well in HS get the college scholarships, and those who run well coming out of college get the financial support, but probably those who may be the best we have get left behind. It has always been this way and may never change. It is not the best way to develop potential, but who is able to change it. There is a very small group who run the show and who get the support -- same names year after year take the teams abroad, decide who gets the support and who is supposed to do the winning. It is tough to prove them wrong, as wrong as they may be.

Frank Shorter wrote:

That says it all.

To what issue are you speaking?

Back when Frank Shorter first got to Boulder in the 1970s it was true. Its population then was something like 25,000 people maximum. There weren't any more elite runners there than a good local, health-oriented mid-sized city like Moab, Utah. There were probably a few solid 30-32 minute 10K type local ex-collegians, but not a legitimate elite running scene. Love him or hate him (and he is arrogant as hell to many people), Frank Shorter was the standard bearer who brought the running scene to Boulder.

history lesson wrote:

Back when Frank Shorter first got to Boulder in the 1970s it was true. Its population then was something like 25,000 people maximum. There weren't any more elite runners there than a good local, Frank Shorter was the standard bearer who brought the running scene to Boulder.

Why do you make these things up? Boulder had a population of 80,000 when Frank got here! At that time Boulder had Flanagan,Gregorio,Casteneda, Peterson, and others running the streets. These guys had to be in school or at jobs during the day. Frank crashed with his girlfriend and ran his butt off. If this quote is accurate and if this is what he was talking about, I would hesitate to say that these guys weren't athletes.

I believe Frank set up in Boulder around 1973-5. Casteneda might have been there (in school?), but was not yet a top runer. Flan, Greg and Pete were years from being competitive. Shorter is not one to make such a statement lightly. He was the first.

My name is Earl wrote:

history lesson wrote:

Back when Frank Shorter first got to Boulder in the 1970s it was true. Its population then was something like 25,000 people maximum. There weren't any more elite runners there than a good local, Frank Shorter was the standard bearer who brought the running scene to Boulder.

Why do you make these things up? Boulder had a population of 80,000 when Frank got here! At that time Boulder had Flanagan,Gregorio,Casteneda, Peterson, and others running the streets. These guys had to be in school or at jobs during the day. Frank crashed with his girlfriend and ran his butt off. If this quote is accurate and if this is what he was talking about, I would hesitate to say that these guys weren't athletes.

That's not what the census data says but OK Earl.

30th Street was a dirt road.

liffiker wrote:

Those who run well in HS get the college scholarships, and those who run well coming out of college get the financial support, but probably those who may be the best we have get left behind.

So should we be giving money and sponsorships to those that don't run well, in the hopes that maybe they will if we pay them enough? that's rediculous. you reward those who perform. granted, there are ways that we could improve the club scenes and motivate more people to continue after college, but unless someone works hard and busts their ass, they shouldn't expect anything.

Runnerz Roost wrote:

30th Street was a dirt road.

Maybe so, but not in town.

something in the water wrote:

I believe Frank set up in Boulder around 1973-5. Casteneda might have been there (in school?), but was not yet a top runer. Flan, Greg and Pete were years from being competitive.

Shorter is not one to make such a statement lightly. He was the first.

I believe Colorado had 2 sub 4:00 milers (Peterson and Casteneda) in 1974. Colorado TC was AAU XC champion in 1975. They were all very serious athletes.

Actually, I know better than to take this "quote" at face value. Maybe he said it, maybe not. Maybe it is about something else, I'll ask him. But, thinking about it, there were not 10 "serious" runners who were not in school in Boulder at that time. I would like to know who they were.

John Lunn was a serious runner in Boulder at that time who ran for the Colorado Track Club. In 1972 the CTC finished fifth at the national XC championships and Lunn was only beaten by Shorter and Bachelor.

Maybe by "real athlete" Shorter meant Olympic medal contenders?

It's like a buddy of mine says, there are two types of runners: Champs (the ones that beat us) and Chumps (the ones we can beat). In other words, who is a real athlete maybe different to Shorter than it is to the rest of us chumps.

I find this article amazing (It's about York High School in Illinois suspending their CC coach). Not because Newton is being suspended, but because of this statement in the article:

"McGraw said the York athletes — 95 attended the summer camp — could have been made ineligible for the remainder of the season, but he said Smith and the rest of the York administration was “very forthright, up front and proactive” in its investigation and assessing the penalty."

95 athletes attending a Cross Country summer camp. If running got that type of participation everywhere, the US would be competing on a international stage.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?id=243673

I saw Castaneda and Gregorio run about 13:40, I believe, at the 1975 Pan Am Trials in Eugene. They wore their blue and yellow college unis. I don't remember their finish, but I believe it was pretty high, and they stood out in their blue and yellow college uniforms and by their place of finish.

Blue and yellow? Where did they go to school? Michigan?

He is a cocky a-hole thats what it says.

When I lived in Boulder in 1978-79 people said the population was something like 45,000. I remember running on a part of 30th St. that was dirt.