Chicago marathon coverage

Yep. Indeed, if Torres were not in the race, just imagine what Hartmann would have run.

Head Trauma wrote:

So THAT's why Hartmann's pace fell WAY off when he caught up to Ed. :-p

Think before writing wrote:

And what makes it infinitely dumber, is that TTC is not even applying "that" premise--if members of a training group do poorly that might cause another member of the group who has not yet competed to have some doubts--to his own case, because this case does not involve a training "group"--it involves one guy, Torres. So his argument really is, "If one member of a training group does not do well, then another member of the group should doubt his own chances."

nope, i'm not wrote:

If i'm on a cross country team, and I can run 25 flat for 8k, but I see one of my teammates, who can run 28 flat for 8k, runs like shit. I'm not going to start questioning whether the training is right or wrong, and yes, that's about how far apart torres and ritz are.

In an 8K, they're more like 1 minute apart.

Christ how devestating for HArtmann!!!!!

Incidentally, the Kimbia group (who really did not do well, so god knows what we should think of Dieter Hogan now) has a neat page on the the "Technical Meeting" at Chicago for elite runners and on their own team meeting.

http://www.chasingkimbia.com/?p=239

Think before writing wrote:

And what makes it infinitely dumber, is that TTC is not even applying "that" premise--if members of a training group do poorly that might cause another member of the group who has not yet competed to have some doubts--to his own case, because this case does not involve a training "group"--it involves one guy, Torres. So his argument really is, "If one member of a training group does not do well, then another member of the group should doubt his own chances

I'm not talking doubt. I'm talking physical/training reasons. Anyway if you guys feel results don't apply, then join the slowest running group in the nation. It doesn't matter how the other athletes perform, you'll be ready to haul.

So what did Ed (and by proxy Ritz) do wrong in training smart guy??

BUT under this training group Ritz has improved every year, ran great at GNR (off of the two hardest training weeks of his life), his recent 24 mile run at altitude felt great, feels himself in vastly the best shape of his life, yet because Ed Torres does not do well, Ritz might doubt his condition. And don't say again you're not talking doubt, because you began this sub-thread by wondering what Ritz is thinking.

ttc wrote:

Think before writing wrote:

And what makes it infinitely dumber, is that TTC is not even applying "that" premise--if members of a training group do poorly that might cause another member of the group who has not yet competed to have some doubts--to his own case, because this case does not involve a training "group"--it involves one guy, Torres. So his argument really is, "If one member of a training group does not do well, then another member of the group should doubt his own chances

I'm not talking doubt. I'm talking physical/training reasons. Anyway if you guys feel results don't apply, then join the slowest running group in the nation. It doesn't matter how the other athletes perform, you'll be ready to haul.

Head Trauma wrote:

So what did Ed (and by proxy Ritz) do wrong in training smart guy??

Go join a joggersworld group. Their training should help you PR, since the other runners' results are irrelevant. Maybe Tito Ortiz should hook up with some awful boxers in preparation for Chuck Liddell and use their training. Good logic.

ttc wrote:

I'm not talking doubt. I'm talking physical/training reasons. Anyway if you guys feel results don't apply, then join the slowest running group in the nation. It doesn't matter how the other athletes perform, you'll be ready to haul.

ttc, you're talking in circles. How others in your group do in a race, especially a marathon, has no bearing on the outcome of your race.

Have you ever run competitively, ttc? Serious question, because had you, this simple axiom would have been confirmed over and over again.

Nice go to the ad hominem attack when you've got nothing of substance (or intelligence) to answer with. It's clear to all of us now that you're just pulling mindless speculation straight out of your ass here. Nobody's above criticism, not even Ritz's flavor of the month coach, but at least have something concrete behind your criticisms if you're going to bother. I'm guessing you visit the Jogger's Earth website a lot more often than I do.

Damn it was so cold and windy out there...in places I think I was seeing a little snow...I'm just glad thats over!

Are results up anywhere for those under 2:30 or at least 2:22?

Some half-marathon splits:

Abdi 63:15

Berhanu 63:15

Sell 64:44

Torres 65:59

Hartmann 66:01

Verran 66:32

Chad Johnson 67:48

[quote]Think before writing wrote:

BUT under this training group Ritz has improved every year, ran great at GNR (off of the two hardest training weeks of his life), his recent 24 mile run at altitude felt great, feels himself in vastly the best shape of his life, yet because Ed Torres does not do well, Ritz might doubt his condition. And don't say again you're not talking doubt, because you began this sub-thread by wondering what Ritz is thinking.[quote]

Speaking about Ritz having doubt was my way of saying maybe he should have some doubt. How the heck was I to know people can't tell literal and figurative apart?? Everything else being the same, it bodes better when athletes prove the training ahead of you, rather than bomb. Agree/disagree, but don't pretend to not understand. The only reasonable counterpoint was that Hartmann ran solid, and that's a great point.

Yes, I've run competitively, Malmo. And no, I'm not talking in circles. My point is simple and consistent.

ttc wrote:

Anyway if you guys feel results don't apply, then join the slowest running group in the nation. It doesn't matter how the other athletes perform, you'll be ready to haul.

I actually understand your point and agree to an extent. In college there were times where our entire team ran like crap at conference or we all ran great. Certainly group peaking.

Not sure if it'll apply here though.

Regardless, the above quoted material is totally stupid.

And this is evidenced by the Kimbia entry. However as also evidenced by that commentary one shouldn't confuse not getting the huge confidence boost that comes from training mates performing well with losing confidence because they don't perform well. That's not the only or most likely alternative outcome.

ttc wrote:

Yes, I've run competitively, Malmo. And no, I'm not talking in circles. My point is simple and consistent.

It's simple and consistent, alright, but lacks logic and any kind of real world experience to back it up. I've never once looked at my teammates - especially inferior ones - as a bellweather. Likewise, I cannot imagine that any of them would ever think that my performances were causation to theirs.

malmo wrote:

It's simple and consistent, alright, but lacks logic and any kind of real world experience to back it up. I've never once looked at my teammates - especially inferior ones - as a bellweather. Likewise, I cannot imagine that any of them would ever think that my performances were causation to theirs.

Then how did you ever choose a coach, college or team?? By how nice the guys are??