Lydiard Books & Philosophy

What exactly is the Lydiard system?

Lydiard training is basically the more miles the better. A more in depth explanation- very long long runs where the pace does not matter much. He had even his milers doing 20+ miles on a long run. He had his runners doing very high mileage with the idea that if a runner runs for long enough, he/she has to eventually resort to running off of the anaerobic systems in the body, which would serve as speed work. A lot of people disagree with this training method(Coe, Webb, Krummanacker), but it yielded great results. I think more people need to give this high mileage thing a try.

check out related material regarding the insight and philosophies of Percy Cerutty. if u dig lydiard, you also might be fascinated with Cerutty's approach. it did wonders for Mr. Elliot back in the day.

The more miles the better is an oversimplification. Mileage is perhaps the basic part of the system as it provides cardiovascular development which Lydiard sees as the basis of fitness. But it's meant to be a balanced system which also provides for anaerobic development as the racing season draws near. If you're doing a pure version of Arthur's system, at that point you lower your mileage and begin to emphasize speed and pace work. Then you back away, have a bit of a rest period, and return to high miles.

Mr Steve Elliot?

Herb, mon.

so does Lydiard emphasize purley base milage? how does he believe anaerobic work should be brought into this system?

confusing if you ask me!

When is the athlete to run the "longer intervals" and begin the speedwork in a typical Lydiard plan for a middle distance runner (1500m-5000m) ? And if so how often?

Ok it seems really no one that responded truly understands the Lydiard system...and I myself am not a expert on his system just yet but feel I can give a better explanation of his system.

His system starts off with building a Aerobic base and doing this for as long as possible, the minimum being 12 weeks...the reason for this as simple and obvious as it may seem but a lot of people dont seem to understand is to give you enough endurance to sustain the speed neccesary for the entire distance you plan to race, also it strengthen's your body so it is better able to handle the workouts such as speed and blah blah blah. After the base period he goes into 4 weeks of hill work, wich is done 3-4 times per week. springing, bounding, and doing easy sprints up a hill. The importance of this is building strength and flexibility in your ankles to give you proper foot mechanics and helps greatly with improving your speed, also balances out your mucsles between you hamstrings and quads, plus it is a great strength workout! After the hill phase you go into workouts such as 3x1600.... 6x800...and after like 4 weeks of workouts of that sort you start to slowly progress into speed workouts and Time Trials, and eventually you are fully into speed and ready to race. His focus is getting his athletes ready for the important races only! Which is a big reason why his athletes had so much success, because of racing all the time, as some people on this thread think you need to do, he fully prepared them. I once read a qoute that said if you can get a runner in his teans to train and not race until he is ready, then you have laid a foundation for a olympian. Lydiard as said in his book took that qoute to his heart. Another people dont understand is that he would have his runners running 160km(100miles) per week at a steady aerobic pace, and almost another 160km at easy running. He strongly believed in got going into anaerobic running during the base period, but felt it was neccesary to end a lot of your runs in a pleasantly tired state, and the reason he added the other easy running was cause of the physiology of it, your body recovers quicker going on a easy run, rather then just resting completly. The reason for that is cause it get you heart pumping blood into your legs and get all the waste products out of your legs quicker. As I said I am not a expert yet on his system or the whole physiology of the sport, but that should give you a better idea of his system. And yes the book is worth buying and reading if you seriously want to understand the whole aspect of the sport of running.

the sentence where I say because of racing all the time should have said.....,instead of racing all the time,

XCpotential wrote:

Lydiard training is basically the more miles the better.

You've just demonstrated how little you understand about Lydiard.

Agreed. A lot of people in this country bastardized Lydiard into nothing more than jogging. I had the pleasure of spending a day with him at a combination camp and seminar in '81. Fascinating guy, and very inspirational.

Nothing is more evident of screwed up most coaches are in this country about his training than the omission of his hill phase, which is the beginning of the transition out of the base work to the faster training. And you don't just run the hills, you "spring" them. It is an action that closely resembles the takeoff of a jump shot, with the runner going nearly straight up and netting little forward motion. What it really is is a plyometric-type exercise to restrengthen the neuromuscular systems that sort of "go to sleep" during periods of higher volume, slower running if you don't do something to keep them going. That's why a lot people are under the delusion that Lydiard's training "kills" speed. It's because they don't understand the WHOLE SCHEME and all they do is 20-milers at 9:00 or some bullshit like that. Lydiard was also a proponent of what he called "supplemental strengthing and stretching work", which again is what we call today plyometric-type stuff.

Lydiard also insisted on fast, BUT NOT ANAEROBIC, running in the base phase for the same reason. And Coe's training resembled Lydiard's in more ways than people realize, though it was different. Coe would hit as high as 90/week in his base, which is not exactly "low" mileage.

His athletes hit their "steady-state" at 3.25-3.75 per Kilometer...which would be 3:15-3:45, which would be 5:13-6:02 per mile, which should be nothing new. A lot of elite runners click off 6:00 pace, but that's still a minute or more slower than elite marathon pace. You simply start easy and finish harder, but still aerobic.

I also remember him breaking up the weekly runs in varying distances instead of one set distance each day. During the base he did 3 "long runs". Basically one real long run and two mid-long runs. So it would look something like this:

20-5-15-10/10-15-10/10-10. Varying distances, some doubles, some longer runs. His hill phase would also include some short speed at the end of the workout, basically 200m strides. In his second book, and with others who followed his example later, he cut the hill workouts down to 2-3 a week instead of the 4-5 in the first book.

He is far from the godfather of long slow distance...that would be Van Aaken..;)

Alan

You say he reduced the number of hill workouts in a later work, presumably having learnt some sort of lesson. Out of all Lydiard's books which would be the one that you would recommend as his best?.

The book "Run with the Best" by Tony Benson and Irv Ray follows the Lydiard system pretty closely, as Tony ran for Lydiard...I think it takes a more scientific approach and things that coaches have learned over the years...it is a good read and much success has come out of it...

Excellent reading material magpie.

In reading through the materials, I saw that Lydiard recommends a "primary workout" (my own words) each day during the base phase, which is done at a steady state (not too fast, not too slow). He also recommends, in addition to this primary workout, that runners do as much more as they have time for and can handle, and the pace on these "secondary runs" (again my own words) isn't as important, as long as one is getting in enough time at steady state in the "primary runs."

Am I misreading this or not?

From what I've gathered, I have made my own Lydiard based plan.... Problem is I have some races to mix in and am unsure weather I will be in racing shape....

Jan 17, 2003 I will most likley have a 3000m race, Feb 8 and 800m, Feb 9 a 1500m...

I would like to "peak" or run very well at the Simplot games (Feb 13-15) and the provincial Champs (Mar. 8/9)

SAMPLE LYDIARD PLAN

OCT. 6 - DEC. 28 Base Milage (12 Weeks)

DEC. 29- JAN 25 Hill work 3x per week (4 weeks)

JAN 26- Feb 22 Strength Workouts 2-3x per week, 3xmile/6x800m, 5x1000m, etc. (4 weeks)

Feb 23- ?? speed?

Problem is the Simplot games come right in the middle of the scheduled strength workout's time period, any ideas?

do I have this right?

Here we go again: "Coe would hit as high as 90/week in his base, which is not exactly "low" mileage" says Zat0pek. And your proof of that is? Surely not Coe?s father?s book, right? Because I missed the 90 mile base weeks. But he was LYING, right? Or he didn?t count any of his warm-up miles, etc, etc,?.we?ve heard it all before. Why is it so hard for some people to believe that there actually have been great mid-distance runners(even up to 5k) who did not do at least 90-100+ mile weeks of base running? Well, believe it or not, it is TRUE. Deal with it. Lydiard?s way is great, but it is NOT the only way.

And as far as Speedy 1400?s contention that ?your body recovers quicker going on a easy run, rather then just resting completely.? Oh really, so why ever stop running? Why not do several 10 miles easy runs a day (after your real workout in the morning) if that will help you recover better than simply resting by not running? Interesting physiology. SOME easy running may help you recover?..to a point. An extra 100 miles a week of it?? I doubt it. If you survive it(unlikely) it might theoretically make you stronger(if you are superman). But I doubt it will be because it helped you recover better from your other 100 harder miles than if you had rested by not running. I guess sleep is bad for you too because you are just laying there, right? Better get up quick, skip that sleep and go running!

"Problem is the Simplot games come right in the middle of the scheduled strength workout's time period, any ideas?"

Maybe you should start now (almost 4 weeks ahead of your scheduled start), move up the hills and interval work a coupla' weeks, and then you should be well positioned to do well at both the Simplot and Provincials.