Ian Connor

I guess he was the same place as all the other guys who put up fast times in January/February on oversized tracks, injured from excessive indoor intervals or stale by peaking so early. Here is a quick list of indoor times achieved on oversized tracks. Common logic says that most people will be much faster outdoor, but I am not so sure that is the case with the present fast indoor tracks. Presently, indoor may be an ADVANTAGE, not disadvantage. Here are some indoor times achieved on oversized tracks. Did anyone of these guys even remotely approach these times outdoor? If so, it was few.

Kentucky: 1:47.4, 1:48.3, 1:48.6, 1:48.8, 1:49.9, 1:50.4 (Outdoor = By end of year all were much slower & huge drops at regional and national.) Myers (OSU) @ Kentucky meet 3:58

Notre Dame Meet: Watson 3:57, Brannen 3:57, Boaz 3:58, Willis 3:58, Connor 3:58, Thompson 4:00, Desilets 4:01, Morrison 4:01, Michaelis 4:02, Somok 4:03.

Washington meet: Luchini 13:49, Pukstas 13:50, Davis 13:57, Asmeron 7:49, Balgac 7:55, (19 under 8:10), Park 7:54, Garner 8:04, Hartman 13:53.

Penn State meet: Hahn 4:08, Lincoln 1:50

Those are oversized tracks? Who is Hahn and why do we care about his crappy 4:08?

Heard Conner was training under steepler Robert Gary who is coaching at Ohio State. Not sure why he was a no-show at Nationals (his indoor time qualified him)

You care, not because he ran a crappy 4:08, but because he did so like all the others on the list on an aversized indoor track. Just like Conner. And like nearly all others on the list, this guy didn't approach these indoor times outdoor. I was showing that the track plays a role in this. Not just for the elites, but for most of any ability. These oversized tracks may be giving many a false sense of achievement. ORRRRRR the coaches need to have more of a long-term development plan other than busting ass all January and February and ending up stale and/or injured in May/June.

Makes Alan Webb's 3:58 at Pre even more impressive, as he DID IMPROVE outdoors compared to indoors.

Arthor wrote; These oversized tracks may be giving many a false sense of achievement. ORRRRRR the coaches need to have more of a long-term development plan other than busting ass all January and February and ending up stale and/or injured in May/June.

What the hell have you done that makes these fast times a false sence of achievement b/c they were on an indoor track. They are what they are! A 3:58 is a 3:58 get my point! Are you saying that these times mean less, if you were a good runner you would understand that a lot more goes into training and racing than just your coach training you, Do you not understand that school, family, friends, getting sick, injury and many other varialbles go into running. Just because someone gets injured dosen't mean that they are over trained, and if they are over trained you should understand that great runners are always on the fine line of injury. That is why they become good- they are not scared to over train and take the chance.

Penn State is not an oversized track. It is a banked 200 meter track. That is considered the standard indoor track internationally.

Compare the two--I am not sure what your point was...same people at both with a few exceptions.

Indoor Nationals:

Final

1 Jason Lunn Nike 3:42.23

2 Michael Stember Nike Farm Team 3:42.73

3 Charlie Gruber Unattached 3:43.35

4 Ian Connor Nike 3:44.01

5 Bryan Berryhill adidas 3:44.15

6 Daniel Wilson Asics 3:44.41

7 Alan Webb Nike 3:44.45

8 Ryan Bak Unattached 3:44.61

9 Brandon Strong Asics 3:46.31

10 Jason Long Unattached 3:46.66

Outdoor

Finals

1 Jason Lunn NIKE 3:44.00

2 Bryan Berryhill adidas 3:44.30

3 Grant Robison Stanford 3:44.83

4 Michael Stember NIKE 3:45.14

5 Charlie Gruber NIKE 3:45.29

6 Seneca Lassiter NIKE 3:45.33

7 Daniel Wilson Asics 3:46.00

8 Brendon Mahoney unattached 3:46.02

9 Brandon Strong Asics 3:46.71

10 Alan Webb NIKE 3:47.35

11 Sean Jefferson Indiana 3:48.19

12 Sean O'Brien unattached 3:48.25

PA, Thanks. You are correct about PSU. I was lumping the hydraulically banked tracks as unusually fast as well.

your crazy, Did I strike a nerve? Sorry to have made you think. How fast or slow I've run has nothing to do with my inquiry. I put these people down in no way at all, I simply stated a fact. Many ran MUCH faster indoor on oversized/hydraulic banked tracks than outdoor. Many ran great times indoor and expectations were then much much higher outdoor. Maybe the outdoor expectations need to be tempered somewhat because of the technology and swiftness of the indoor tracks. Maybe some, with the size, banking, controlled weather, etc. are actually faster than outdoor. If you think all times are equal, you are simply not thinking with an open mind. I can cover 100 meters faster than 5 seconds if it off the side of a cliff. All the things you mentioned as potential problems are valid such as family, school, etc., but I wonder if pounding the indoor track increases one's vulnerability to injury and staleness, and this year's nasty weather made it easier to get inside. I agree that training hard is a necessity to reach your potential. I do however wonder if January is the smartest time to go for broke.

I was looking for some input from some of the older guys with experience and insight such as Sully, Malmo, NW Master, etc. What are your thoughts on the fact that so many collegians and recent grads are running so fast indoor, then much slower, hurt, sick, etc. outdoor on what seems to be a regular basis?

mile question, My question was concerning runners who ran very good marks on exceptionally fast indoor tracks. Most went on outdoor to run much slower. This has been going on for a few years. Check my list from this year. Many factors are obviously involved, but the facts show that MANY hitting big marks on the state-of-the-art indoor tracks, never approach that mark again indoor or outdoor. My question is why? I don't have an answer or even strong opinion. It is just an observation & I wanted to see what many of the guys with vast indoor/outdoor experience think. I have commented enough, so I won't reply further, but will wait for the older guys to give an educated opinion.

Ian was like .04 away from making the USATF final outdoors too. That heat had a crazy finish, and he just missed making it.

Some things to consider here. First of all, the only advantage an oversize indoor track (where all of the fast times you are referencing above) has over an outdoor track is that it is under cover. No weather to factor for an indoor track. I wouldn't say that indoor has an advantage, what I would consider is the races that these times are set in. If you look at the Notre Dame Mile, it was set up perfectly with a bunch of talented athletes and a rabbit that did his job. If you look at the Washington meet, same thing. Ditto with the Kentucky meet - any race with Lekote in it and the fact that he takes it out in 51 seconds everytime is going to be fast. These were just dam special races with dam special kids. They don't happen very often and they didn't happen this outdoor season. Plus, with outdoors now going to regionals, there are no automatic qualifying marks that athletes are trying to go after with rabbits like during the indoor season and these races that were set up.

Furthermore, just because an athlete is training hard during the indoor season and gets hurt (Rob Myers and Ian Connors case) doesn't mean they were running excessive intervals or have a bad coach. Heck, Rob Myers has had injury problems his whole career. I would bet a million dollars he wouldn't trade running a 3:58 mile indoors to maybe have a little bit better outdoor season. You walk a fine line in training when you are running at a very high level. Injuries are part of the game - they happen during the outdoor season as well.

The other thing you ask is where where these kids during the outdoor season. I hope this list below helps:

Luchini: 13:49 indoors, 13:31 outdoors

Pukstas: 13:50 indoors, 28:35 outdoors

Balgac: didn't run outdoors (I don't think)

Garner: 8:04 indoors, 3:44 outdoors

Watson: 3:57 indoors, 13:38 outdoors

Brannen: 3:58 indoors, 1:46 outdoors

Boaz: 3:58 indoors, 27:40 and 13:29 outdoors

Willis: 3:58 indoors, The man to beat outdoors if he does'nt fall down at NCAA meet

Desilets: 4:01 indoors, 8:30 steeple

Morrison: 4:01 indoors, 3:44 outdoors

Freeman: 1:47.4 indoors, 1:48 and 3:42 outdoors

Spencer: 1:48.3 indoors, 1:48.7 and 3:43 outdoors

Ciurlys: 1:48.6 indoors, 1:48.7 outdoors

Johnson: 1:48.8 indoors, 1:48.5 outdoors

Before you get on this list blasting kids and their coaches for running fast times during indoors, make sure you consider all the factors and do your research as to what the kids ran outdoors. Also, look at all the factors. The biggest being the type of race (rabbit, conference final, etc..) and the athletes that are in the race. That makes a huge difference when it comes to performance.

where are the results for that?

coop wrote:

Ian was like .04 away from making the USATF final outdoors too. That heat had a crazy finish, and he just missed making it.

The two most important factors affecting times are wind and pacing, in that order. Take care of these factors and a 300m indoor track becomes *almost* as fast as a similar race run outdoors(no wind+ rabbits on a 400m).