Plan for Marathon 8 months away

Looks amazing. You got this!

Thanks, that's reassuring... hope I survive the first week!

I think 8 months is a lot for one straight-through build. I'd train like a 10k/half marathon runner for 5 months culminating in a hard 10k-half marathon effort, then take a super easy week with like 3-4 days completely off and some easy runs, and then gradually shift focus the next 12 weeks on the long run and bigger but slightly slower workouts. Not completely cutting out faster than LT pace efforts, but only doing them like once every couple weeks.

You didn’t mention your current volume but your first week should only be slightly more than the previous week. You should take at a couple of months to work up to your new level of training.

Interesting... in another thread we had an exchange about people bonking due to lack of preparedness for the full marathon and you agreed that most often people have trained for 10K/Half but do not put in the volume/mileage needed for 26.2

It's this fear that makes me cautious and want to build up and hold the high mileage for a prolonged period (with a little buffer accounting for any unforeseen hurdles along the way)

In case I was to follow your suggestion, what would you modify/add to the schedule to target a half in 5 months?

For the past 3 months I've fluctuated between 40 - 60 MPW depending on how lazy I was that week, so from the start of this month am trying to be serious and codified it all into a schedule that I cant escape from which puts me right at 60 this week

Side note, I have no talent except that I'm (unfortunately) naturally built like a distance runner, 5 ft 7 - 125 lb so I don't get injured but also am blessed with 100% no-twitch fibres so all the running I do hardly reflects in my PRs

You don't think 12 weeks of marathon specific work is meaningful? That's a full training cycle. That's when you do it. When you're multiple months away from a marathon you need to stay in tune with your speed. So what I said does not contradict the other post. It's similar to how an 800m runner might be doing tempo runs in the off season and then fast race specific work close to the championship season. You do different types of training at different times, but the stuff closest to your goal race is when you do training specific to that race. Most people do not do true marathon work EVER and just always do the 10k-half type of training, and at best throw in one or two longer runs or workouts.

Anyway, I'd treat the 8 months as two seasons almost. First one trying to peak at 4-5 months doing specific 10k-half marathon work, lots of threshold running and some faster than threshold running in the second half of that. Then after the brief reset quickly get into the threshold work and then get into work that is a combination of threshold and marathon or even slightly slower than marathon pace but with larger volume, and the longest long runs of the 8 month cycle, peaking around 3 hours of easy long run distance. Biggest mileage week and biggest workout being over a 10-14 day span roughly 15-24 days before the marathon.

I probably have very little confidence in my ability, perhaps due to past lack of consistency but also trust your more experienced perspective over mine so I'll ensure there are no excuses this training cycle

When the time comes, I'll have to look up specific marathon work, realising now I am as clueless as all those other bonkers as all I did last time were a few weekend 20 milers and figured 6 more on the day should be fine... lol

Would it be sensible to include the threshold work as the second half of my current 7 milers as a type of progression from easy pace into threshold once warmed up mid way?

I've been cautious trying to stay within easy pace/effort but earlier today as I raced an out of shape cyclist up a 200m hill, the thrill of shifting up a couple gears was alluring

I would highly encourage taking at least one day off per week.

stress + rest = growth (Steve magness' formula)

I know being consistent is the goal for most runners so hitting the same daily total is appealing, but I think you could gain more by having variation in your daily run.

Occasionally go 10 miles and see how you feel the next day - if you have to dial back that next day or even plan that next day as the day off, do so.

Don't be afraid the experiment: for example

I once wonder if i could do two long runs in a row. I know this sounds crazy but I did it and it worked. you build a lot more strength when you push your self but you must follow this up with a total day of no running.

what if you did 10 miles for one of those 7 mile days

and then the next week did two back-to-back 10 mile days (followed by a day off)

don't you think you would get stronger doing that?

I would think you would get stronger by building up to

10, 10 day off and repeating this twice a week

10, 10, 0, 10, 10, 0 vs 7,7,7,7,7,7,7

you'll get about the same number of miles but you will be building endurance and that is what the marathon is all about. and it will be easy to start adding more miles down the road.

if you do this don't be afraid to adjust the pace - you may need to slow down on some days. getting through the run is the goal not the time.

Just to take this a little further:

after pulling off two long days in a row (for me it was 20 miles) I tried 3 in a row. and guess what? I could do it.

then I put 9 in a row. 20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,26 (went even further on the last day)

surprisingly my pace did not change that much from day to day. I think i was most tired on days 2 and 3....after that I seemed to just adapt and 20 became no big deal. Now this did not happen over night, I spend a few years building up to run longer runs. I hated long runs before this and seldom did them. I rarely went over 10 miles in fact. So just getting to one 20 mile run was a monumental achievement. but the body has an incredible ability to adapt, If you give it rest at the right time = which is why i highly suggest you take one day off per week regardless of what you chose to do.

you might think taking days off is lame or only for wimps and you would be wrong.

I understand your your point and see the logic behind it and your personal experience is astonishing if you managed to rack up 186 miles in a span of 9 days without ending up in A&E at some point or soon thereafter!

The reason for the repetitive, monotonous nature of my scheduling is I am an OCD type that takes comfort in the consistency of the process but sudden variations spikes my anxiety and then the uncertainty of an undulating situation creates a greater chance for me to fall off track

But certainly I agree with your sentiment and message, especially if there are such greater benefits to be had especially as the thought of even a single 20 miler right now makes me squirm, let alone back to back to back... I had been able to complete a few single 20 milers some decade+ ago but they would wipe me out for the next 3 days so back then my schedule (for marathon) was simply Sunday 20 miles, Wednesday 6km Tempo, I have since learnt the error of my ways

Most likely as the plan unfolds down the line, I will make the adjustments that you, Hot Takes and others have given and optimise this schedule for better outcomes

Appreciate all the advice so far!

If you run your easy run slow it's a rest day. I think one day off per month is plenty. If you do take a day completely off then you need to take extra advantage of the other days, frequently running a quality long run instead of a bunch of easy pace long runs. There are top people in the world who take a rest day every week and those who never do, both work, but as I just said it seems the ones with the rest day put in more intense work as a whole on the other days.

Ok, that seems to be a well balanced view, although I naturally lean towards the daily run methodology, there may well be circumstances when the better option would be to take full rest, perhaps when getting closer to the M day, there would be a race pace long run that's worth doing even if it requires an extra day downtime or similar, its all very interesting to consider

So far this week I've just made sure to at get the 7 miles in every morning, mostly at easy pace, hoping to continue like this for a couple weeks to be confident the body and lungs are holding up to a consistent 60MPW (including the Sat PM w/o and Sunday LR)

Referring to some long standing training principles I've read about here, I think my physiology and psychology is better suited to the Lydiard style base building method but am aware that he would expect to introduce more specific intense workouts down the line, lets see...

Thanks for your insights

OP, please ignore this post. Back to back 20 mile runs is ludicrous and I have never heard of someone doing it. Nine consecutive days of 20 miles close to a 100% chance of injury. Unless there are some scheduling conflicts, there is no need to take days off.

To answer you question I would need to know your history. Are you an armchair would-be runner starting from scratch for your first marathon? If so, this might be fine (but you'll get bored without varying your sessions with reps. etc). If, however, you're already a runner with a few years of say XC and 10K's and 30-50MPW under your belt, you don't need 8 months - 4 months would get you to the same place.

Right, understood... I was not about to attempt anything so audacious anytime soon, or ever TBH and its reassuring to know that continuously running daily is not so absurd within reason of course, if any indication of injury or illness present then the appropriate action (or non-action) can be taken

I am not new to running, but may as well be given my relatively poor fitness and pathetic times. Am early 40s, never ran in school, never had any natural talent but running made me feel good so since about 15 years ago I started hobbyjogging on and off, summer it was on, retired each winter, couple of years hit up to 60 MPW and once attempted a marathon on 24 MPW (20 miles on Sunday in around 3 hours + 6km Tempo in ~24 mins)

Needless to say, I failed... badly... on race day while cruising at around 3:45 pace I crashed at mile 18 and still have PTSD thinking about those last few miles, ended up 4+

Leading up to this marathon, I had run a 1:39 half on the same "training" that I described above

I totally accept my folly and have wised up now which is why I've tried to setup that schedule in the OP to make sure I've given it a proper shot. I'm short (5 ft 7) and naturally skinny (~125 lb) so I don't seem to get injured but this is about all I have in my favour

Although I understand your point about boredom and variation, I'm one of those extreme OCD types that thrives on monotony but finds the uncertainty of variation unsettling as if "I missed the opportunity of getting in more miles on a certain day or I did too much one day and now I've over trained and ruined everything" Yes it's a bit insane, but that's the framework I'm working in. The reason for 8 months build up is I don't fully trust myself (from past experience) to either hold steadfast to the schedule or that my (lack of) natural ability will allow me to progress as fast as most would expect

The past 3 months I've been fluctuating between 40 - 60 MPW due to being a lazy sod but since Monday am trying to hold to the daily routine which puts me at 60 MPW this week, all easy pace

Week 1 Update:

Surprisingly made it through the schedule with no days off but a slight adjustment for Sunday as follows:

M - AM - 7.1
T - AM - 7.1
W - AM - 7.1
T - AM - 7.1
F - AM - 7.1
S - AM - 7.6 + PM - 3 (400 repeats)
S - AM - 4.1

Total = 50.2 miles

Although I confidently stated in a previous post that I don't injure easily, the ego coaxed me to try and finish one of the 400s faster than my 20 year younger training partner... felt the right lower calf-ankle area (strain/sprain?) and it's been sore since then

Therefore I only ran 4.1 easy miles on Sunday hoping to continue running as per schedule again from Monday morning

Week 2 Update:

Another week completed without any days off, calf/ankle pain has persisted but gradually lessened over this time and thus forced me to run easy pace honestly easy

M - AM - 7.1
T - AM - 7.1
W - AM - 7.1
T - AM - 7.1
F - AM - 4.5 - PM - 4.1
S - AM - 7.6 - PM - 4.6
S - AM - 7.2

Total = 56.4 miles

Week 3 Update:

Some interesting experiences and experimentation for my own self improvement this week, maybe it could also be useful for someone else at some point...

M - PM - 4.6
T - PM - 7.2
W - PM - 7.2
T - PM - 7.2
F - PM - 12.2
S - PM
S - PM - 16.2

Total = 54.6 miles

Abandoned the early morning routine and switched to running in the evenings, for whatever reason this just fits better with current lifestyle and flows more smoothly

Also abandoned the objective of hitting 100 MPW this training block and instead will try to increase mileage naturally as the body allows, if 100 arrives in due course so be it but if not, no big deal

The calf pain that started 2 weeks ago subsided enough to not be noticeable anymore (until the very end of a strenuous effort) so I felt brave enough to time trial a 12.2 mile run on Friday followed by a complete rest day on Sat then a 16.2 long run at steady pace on Sunday, as Hot Takes suggested above that if a day is taken completely off then it should be compensated by some relatively harder training around that period