Zelensky capitulates agrees Donetsk can be demilitarized, Putin wants total Eu/NATO surrender

Putin demands Ukraine and Eastern Europe return back. It's historic.

Is this good or bad?

Both sides must take a hit, IMHO.

Ukraine - give up all claims to Crimea, shared administration of nuclear power facilities, eliminates neo-Nazi groups within their borders, gets no financial reparations from Moscow, must hold UN monitored national elections within 90 days of treaty signing.

Russia - withdraws to pre-war borders, shuts down pro-Russian militias operating in Ukraine, accepts that Ukraine will be joining NATO and the EU.

Everyone else - UN peacekeeping forces (no NATO troops permitted) will protect a 20km wide DMZ along the Russia/Ukraine/Belarus borders for 8 years. Immediate thawing of Russian financial assets and an end to trade restrictions.

Putin and Zelenskyy will be effectively retired from political power in the wake of such a deal since both have to make big sacrifices. That should help calm things down and provide a fresh start.

Russia has to take no hit at all. They are calling the shots.

All E Eur is part of Russia. No NATO. No US. Zelensky takes his BTC Bit Coin hard wallet and family to Santa Barbara.

the only thing still fueling the war is the ability of the western public to cling to media-fueled delusions

losing ground on all fronts, out of men, hundreds of billions $$$ wasted, much of it diverted to corruption. But Russia must agree to our demands! Somehow.

Might makes right is such a lame world view.

Apply your logic to the Middle East, and Israel can crush and kill all Palestinians. If the world shouldn't force Putin to take hits, why should the world pressure Israel to take hits?

Funny you believe the exact opposite when it comes to Israel vs Hamas. Hypocrite much?

It's a war. The winner calls the shots.

Russia v Ukraine is a war that began in 2014 with the US helping violenlty overthrow the elected govt that wanted to keep good relations with Russia.

Israel is genociding the Palestinians to steal more land.

Don't see the difference?

Everybody should

You have blinders on. You have repeatedly made the same allegation about 2014 without convincing evidence that it is fact. But even if it was factual, it doesn't justify the invasion of Ukraine. Russian has no legal right to demand a ally on its border.

And the incursion from Gaza into Israel gave Israel the excuse to invade Gaza. I'm not a fan of Israel's government or the way they have waged this war, but Hamas gave them an excuse which is far stronger than Russia's justification for invading Ukraine.

It's all true. What do you deny? That the elected Ukrainian govt was violently overthrown in 2014? Or that the US had a role in that?

It's also true the US promised not to expand NATO closer to Russia when the USSR was considering disbanding. The West caused this war, not Russia.

Israel has an excuse for killing tens of thousands of kids and stealing all of Gaza do they?

As for your last sentence, Israel's "right" to do that is just as solid as Russia's right to do what they have done and continue to try to do in Ukraine. And since Russia's incursion happened first, it arguably is precedent for people who think like you do.

I don't deny that Ukraine's president was overthrown in 2014. The material you offered in the past shows that the US was aware of the movement and had a favored outcome. That does not show that the US had a role. Governments usually have a preferred outcome in similar turmoil in other countries. That doesn't mean that they took a role.

My recollection is that the cessation of further expansion of NATO was discussed. However, Russia failed to get it included in the final agreements. No such discussions are binding if not incorporated in the agreement. The SU was in the process of dying, and they simply weren't in a strong enough position to negotiate the final deal that Putin wishes they had negotiated.

PUTIN IS THEE MAN, All Wars should be fought to an unconditional Surrender. I think The saying We have Won by forcing our enemy into an Unconditional Surrender, Sounds so much better Than We are pulling out as all of our military obligations have been met, Which almost sounds like trying to save face. And Also Putin And the Chinese President have said They have Hypersonic Nuclear missiles that the USA can not stop, I want to see if that is true or not, I don't think Any Hypersonic Nuclear missiles can get past our Defense

It's simply a part of humanity to continuously battle over turf. It won't ever end. Russia allowed Mongol-Russia half-breed slaves to settle Ukraine. US conquers Palestine and exiled non-Semitic victims of Germany to the conquered areas. Now each area is being recovered. It will be fought over after that. So on and so on ....

2014 was a violent coup that abolished democracy.

Why should an eastern ukrainian still support ukraine when your elected president is Just removed by force.

Ukrainians are 100% responsible for this and are getting what they deserve

Putin is toast. He just puts up a good fight because after that he is dead.
He country has run out of resources and men. They will not recover from this in the next 50 years.

I have a type.