Fair enough. Though I usually do my runs in the morning so it can be a little annoying if I go to work drunk. "What do you mean, you threw up on the printer?!" You know, that kind of thing.
Yeah and Bill Rodgers ate a lot of junk food. It doesn’t matter as much when you are young. But make no mistake, Kessler isn’t going to be on the podium due to Rice Crispy treats and Country Time Lemonade. He has the talent and work ethic to have a chance though.
Country time lemonade brought Cam Levins the North American Marathon record
"When it comes to the factors in an athlete’s routine that can make a difference in performance, Burns says bicarb might account for 1% of that. Good fueling and nutrition, Burns says, is more like 10% — maybe 20% or 30%."
So, with bad fueling and nutrition, Kessler would be running 4:11-4:32 rather than 3:29 for the 1500?
That's not what I took him to mean, and maybe it's on me for not phrasing it better. Burns' larger point was that he believes you can make much bigger gains in performance by optimizing your fueling/nutrition than you can by using bicarb. I think he's talking more generally that of all of the things you can do to improve as a runner, good fueling/nutrition might be 10% of it where bicarb might only be 1%.
Also I find Rojo's war on bicarb very amusing. This article was about how Kessler eats Rice Krispies Treats and drinks Country Time Lemonade during workouts yet Rojo starts a thread comparing it to bicarb.
I'm not pro-bicarb or anti-bicarb. I'm just interested in it because part of my job is to be on top of these trends so I want to know who is using it and who isn't. Rojo seems to believe anyone who says they're not sure bicarb helps and ignore anyone who says they think it makes a difference.
bicarb works. done wrong, it won't work.
in horses well documented, there are a couple of studies amongst the majority that are inconclusive. you can dig into those studies that are inconclusive, and vet the "scientists". remember some of these self appointed fact checker types, they come up with things like, it is physically impossible for a man to run under 4 minutes for the mile, pitchers cannot curve the ball, it is an optical illusion, drugs steroids don't work in sports (hockey players said this) because you'll burn out and get hangovers. i kid you not....
when you have a raft of 143 guys suddenly running 141, and all are on bicarb, and they say it works, well that is pretty good evidence. i don't know who was doing what last year, under the impression that most people in the 8 were bicarbing... stand to be corrected.
it looks like bicarb done right is good to add 2 seconds anaerobic threshold over maybe 1km. and something close to 1 second in the 400, though this seems to be further in the land of speculation.
what should happen in the 400, is a guy that opens in 21.0 200m and comes home in 11.0 plus 13.0 last 100m segments. the bicarb should allow for a 44 flat with the last 100m in 12 flat.
an interesting factoid is that the speed of the runner at the finish near max all the way, is approximately the same for 400, 800, 1500. where nobody is going faster than 12.x 100m pace at the line. on fumes.
I find this thread interesting for a lot of reasons, but a couple things stick out. My HS coach in the 90's was adament about us eating something (usually a banana, twizzlers, etc.) within 15 minutes of a workout. Just through his own trial-error as a (pretty damn good) runner himself he found this to be optimal, and passed it down to us.
The second is rice-crispy treats. When my daughter had ferritin issues this became a staple in our house. Rice Krispies are very high in iron, although oddly the generic brands seem to be about 10% higher than the brand name. Just as odd, the pre-packaged Rice-Krispie treats are void of any iron whatsoever...so something in the processing must remove that somehow. I guess if you are just chasing sugar/carbs it doesn't matter.
I contribute her quick ferritin-bounce-back not only to a dedicated supplement regimen, but little tweaks in diet like this. Guess we won't be stopping the homemade, generic Rice Krispy treats anytime soon.
That was a good read.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
watch 1976 5000m where cheating Viren is the only runner that doesn't have the bear jump on his back in the last meters.
Dixon died the most horrible of deaths, and Quax, who used altitude training, faired better.
Viren gets my repeated wrath because he actually did blood infusions between heats, and he never came clean. I wished that Brendan Foster, the fantastic sporting man, would have punched his lights out.
watch 1976 5000m where cheating Viren is the only runner that doesn't have the bear jump on his back in the last meters.
Dixon died the most horrible of deaths, and Quax, who used altitude training, faired better.
Viren gets my repeated wrath because he actually did blood infusions between heats, and he never came clean. I wished that Brendan Foster, the fantastic sporting man, would have punched his lights out.
Blood doping was legal back then. It was still legal in 1984 when US Olympic cyclists did it. The publicity around that in 1984 was what led to blood doping being banned.
I think what Hobbs is doing is sensible. Any fuel that can be stomached is strictly better than none at all.
The issue nowadays is the media and general health guidelines will tell you such food items are not good for you, but I just don't think the same rules apply to runners with an active lifestyle, particularly those training upwards of 5 hours per week - which is a very low threshold for pros. You need carbs and sugars to perform at a high level, the telegraph interview with Jakob this week started with some sentence around him stuffing his mouth with cake, it's not just Kessler eating this sort of food. I'm sure that there are more natural foods available that would be better but for someone like Hobbs it's probably far easier, and requires less cognitive effort to pull out a rice krispies treat.
I will continue to stack both my mileage and my pancakes based on this.
I think what Hobbs is doing is sensible. Any fuel that can be stomached is strictly better than none at all.
The issue nowadays is the media and general health guidelines will tell you such food items are not good for you, but I just don't think the same rules apply to runners with an active lifestyle, particularly those training upwards of 5 hours per week - which is a very low threshold for pros. You need carbs and sugars to perform at a high level, the telegraph interview with Jakob this week started with some sentence around him stuffing his mouth with cake, it's not just Kessler eating this sort of food. I'm sure that there are more natural foods available that would be better but for someone like Hobbs it's probably far easier, and requires less cognitive effort to pull out a rice krispies treat.
I will continue to stack both my mileage and my pancakes based on this.
I think you're right- it's not the same when you're very active.
I'm 66 and very healthy. When I look back at my diet until I reached my late 40's I should be dead or at least diabetic with heart issues (and they both run in my family). But I was running 60-70 mpw.
When it comes to the factors in an athlete's routine that can make a difference in performance, Burns says bicarb might account for 1% of that. Good fueling and nutrition, Burns says, is more like 10% -- maybe 20% or 30%.
And the fueling Kessler uses is Country Time Lemonade and Rice Krispy Treats.
Where is the ingredients list for those post it here. Btw are you aware of what’s going on the havana thread? They are crying your name and asking for your help. Not that anyone would care but just so you know if you didn’t already
My grandfather just turned 92. He eats an insane amount of sugar. At his age, he isn’t very active. Yet, he’s sharp as a tack and his blood work has been great. No diabetes or prediabetes. No cavities. He’s relatively lean. Perhaps it’s just good genetics. Perhaps there’s more to the story than just the carbs.
During the Tour de France, cyclists consume somewhere between 100 and 120g of carbs every hour for 4-6 hours.
Thats the equivalent of 8 - 12 cans of coke.
Good to see Hobbs learning from the cycling world that carbs during aerobic activity is super beneficial.
Cycling and is light years ahead running in regards to training and nutrition methods. ...The 2 hour barrier could most definitely be broken if the top runners could figure out how to manage a 100 to 120 g /hour load with the right ratio of maltodextrin to fructose profile.
Jakob has soda multiple times a week along with a lot of junk food, he gets his healthy food but just needs calories. This article isn't new stuff for some people who don't follow the social media "clean eating" frenzy. Jakob has been fueled by nugatti for years.