I think they're under-performing relative to talent, but mainly due to injuries. And that's the knock on the group: almost every one of them has had a major, season-ending injury in the last 4 years. Nuguse is the same xception, so far. That should lead to some reflection on the training and set-up. I've said it before when discussing OAC, but several other top pros that have jumped in on workouts with the group have mentioned how hard the OAC training is in terms of volume at high intensity. They notably don't do double-T which so many other pros use to keep them training consistently without stressing the body too much. I hope they sort it out as a lot of the group are likable
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Cole Hocker and Grant Fisher both had major injuries in 2022/2023 respectively, and missed the World team because of it. Hocker stayed with his coach, and Fisher left even though he set an AR at the end of the season (BTC imploding probably had more to do with his leaving than his injury).
Klecker and Monson the team in 2021, 2022, and 2023. Klecker won a US title over Fisher right after Fisher ran 26:33. Monson was just 5th in the world and the first American woman under 14:20 in 2023. They have had 1 major injury each since joining OAC, and while it sucks that it was during an Olympic year, the hate Ritz in particular gets for it is WAY overblown. 1 injury in 4 years is not abnormal. If you watch the 2023 World 5k final, Monson ran an American Record and still got absolutely obliterated the last lap. If she wanted to improve, she needed to step up the training. It looks like her body couldn't handle it, but hindsight is 20/20. Maybe she just needs to keep doing the same thing, but I'm not convinced that switching coaches would have gotten her to a medal. What coach in the US has gotten a US woman to medal in the 5k? Who has placed better than Monson in the last 25 years?
Are Monson and Klecker really underperforming relative to talent? How many NCAA records and titles did they have combined when they joined OAC? I think it was Monson's 1 5k indoor title. She went on to break the American Record in the 5k and come 5th at Worlds, which is as good as anyone. Klecker had a 2nd in XC, and went on to win a US 10k title and make 3 national teams and run 12:54. For someone with 0 NCAA titles and 0 NCAA records, how much more are you expecting??? And this is all between 2021-2023. How much better do they need to be running??? Do Americans who never win an NCAA title or set an NCAA record need to be medaling at WCs and Olympics, or else their coach sucks?
You're overlooking how many in that group are picking up season-ending injuries. It's basically everyone except Nuguse. Saying Klecker and Monson have only had one big injury each is bogus when Hoare, McDonald, Andrews, Garcia Romo, and Beamish are all getting major injuries as well
You're overlooking how many in that group are picking up season-ending injuries. It's basically everyone except Nuguse. Saying Klecker and Monson have only had one big injury each is bogus when Hoare, McDonald, Andrews, Garcia Romo, and Beamish are all getting major injuries as well
Is there any large pro team this isn't true of? Everyone I can think of that ran for Bowerman had a major injury at some point. Lots of Mike Smith's runners have had major injuries. For OAC, I think it just looks worse at the moment because they had a bunch of injuries in the same year (which unfortunately was an Olympic year, so its gets more attention). But if I look at OAC since it started it doesn't seem to me like they have a worse injury history than any other pro group given how many people are in OAC.
Cole Hocker and Grant Fisher both had major injuries in 2022/2023 respectively, and missed the World team because of it. Hocker stayed with his coach, and Fisher left even though he set an AR at the end of the season (BTC imploding probably had more to do with his leaving than his injury).
Klecker and Monson the team in 2021, 2022, and 2023. Klecker won a US title over Fisher right after Fisher ran 26:33. Monson was just 5th in the world and the first American woman under 14:20 in 2023. They have had 1 major injury each since joining OAC, and while it sucks that it was during an Olympic year, the hate Ritz in particular gets for it is WAY overblown. 1 injury in 4 years is not abnormal. If you watch the 2023 World 5k final, Monson ran an American Record and still got absolutely obliterated the last lap. If she wanted to improve, she needed to step up the training. It looks like her body couldn't handle it, but hindsight is 20/20. Maybe she just needs to keep doing the same thing, but I'm not convinced that switching coaches would have gotten her to a medal. What coach in the US has gotten a US woman to medal in the 5k? Who has placed better than Monson in the last 25 years?
Are Monson and Klecker really underperforming relative to talent? How many NCAA records and titles did they have combined when they joined OAC? I think it was Monson's 1 5k indoor title. She went on to break the American Record in the 5k and come 5th at Worlds, which is as good as anyone. Klecker had a 2nd in XC, and went on to win a US 10k title and make 3 national teams and run 12:54. For someone with 0 NCAA titles and 0 NCAA records, how much more are you expecting??? And this is all between 2021-2023. How much better do they need to be running??? Do Americans who never win an NCAA title or set an NCAA record need to be medaling at WCs and Olympics, or else their coach sucks?
You're overlooking how many in that group are picking up season-ending injuries. It's basically everyone except Nuguse. Saying Klecker and Monson have only had one big injury each is bogus when Hoare, McDonald, Andrews, Garcia Romo, and Beamish are all getting major injuries as well
You're overlooking where I literally brought up McDonald and Beamish's injury issues. I've kept my post quoted so you can read it since I don't feel like typing it all out. I'll add that McDonald ended up injured for a few months because he slipped on ice while getting out of his car, which I don't think was Ritz's fault.
Hoare has also only had 1 big injury, he got hurt in 2023. He definitely wasn't hurt last year though, he raced from April-September, then again in December. Did he underperform? I haven't looked in a while, so let's see:
He opened up in April at Australian Champs (2nd, made the Olympic team), won the London DL in July in 3:49 (a weaker field but still a win), and after that he seemed to run out of gas. Out in the repechage at the Olympics, 12-13-10 in the next 3 DLs (August-September), and 6th in a road mile in December. He ran 3:31 twice and a 3:49 before the Olympics, and compared to his best season, 2022, he was only 1s slower (his sb was 3:30 for his CWG gold). The difference is in 2022 he was the 5th fastest 1500m guy, and in 2024 he was the 17th fastest guy. In 2023 his 3:29 put him 9th fastest in the world, and his 2022 sb would've put him 9th fastest in the world in 2024.
Idk coming off an injury, not great, not horrible. I think it's clear he's only been injured once though.
Garcia Romo seemed off last year. Hopefully he's better this year, but I won't defend him or Andrews too hard.
Assuming it is trolling, but even in your nice write-up you can see many athletes either racing below their typical level or not showing up due to injuries . Millrose sees a few more openers and potential redemptive second races, so I agree the post is premature
Ritz's runners get injured too often, but come on it's early February.
If all of the team was putting up blazing times right now, then we'd hear "indoor doesn't matter, BU times are fake, idiots are peaking for indoor"
But instead half the team has run maybe one race and we declare them washed.
Ritz should embrace double threshold to keep his athletes strong and less injured. He seems against double threshold just because so many athletes are doing it and talking about it now.
Hoare = Injured - And has not returned back anywhere near the form he was on (i considered him as good as Kerr & Naguse)
Beamish - Perpetually injured & will forever be remembered for that one Indoor Race
Klecker - Injured and not running anywhere near as well as Mantz or Young
McDonald - Spends more time on the treatment table than on the track
Monsoon - Same again, very talented but broken
All very likeable people but 2024 would suggest something is not right in terms of training intensity
Okay while I agree with the skepticism, primarily having to do with injury histories, I remember a thread saying the exact same thing about Morgan (“perpetually injured”) and I’m pretty sure he competed at worlds in Budapest later that year. Beamish has struggled with injuries in the past that’s undeniable but when he’s able to string together healthy training he’s proven he can rise in the world ranks, and at a very quick rate. There are more examples to bring up but I don’t want to seem like an OAC fanboy, I’m just saying that talent doesn’t go away. I’d give it a little more time before writing the group off is all lol.
. There are more examples to bring up but I don’t want to seem like an OAC fanboy, I’m just saying that talent doesn’t go away. I’d give it a little more time before writing the group off is all lol.
You're overlooking how many in that group are picking up season-ending injuries. It's basically everyone except Nuguse. Saying Klecker and Monson have only had one big injury each is bogus when Hoare, McDonald, Andrews, Garcia Romo, and Beamish are all getting major injuries as well
Ritz swings for the fences as a coach. He's trying to make global medal threats. That's not the same as trying to optimize each athletes potential. It's inevitable that some athletes will get pushed too hard and get injured.
He's of the same mindset as Jerry and to a lesser extent Alberto. Jerry knew his guys had to be able to hit X split for a workout so that's what he had them do. If they couldn't hang they got dropped and that wasn't his problem because they weren't world class. Ritz does it his own way but the mindset of needed to push all out seems similar.
Ritz swings for the fences as a coach. He's trying to make global medal threats. That's not the same as trying to optimize each athletes potential. It's inevitable that some athletes will get pushed too hard and get injured.
He's of the same mindset as Jerry and to a lesser extent Alberto. Jerry knew his guys had to be able to hit X split for a workout so that's what he had them do. If they couldn't hang they got dropped and that wasn't his problem because they weren't world class. Ritz does it his own way but the mindset of needed to push all out seems similar.
Is it really the case that Ritz is swinging for the fences and pushing his athletes too hard? I like to follow OAC's training since some of them post on Strava, and my impression is that Ritz is one of the more conservative pro coaches when it comes to training. I get that someone like Klecker's training looks really impressive to us regular folks, but I think compared to other pros it's really nothing unusual - he just posts all of his training so we get to see everything, which is unusually transparent - although becoming less so (which I think is fun to see).
Yeah they had a lot of bad injuries last year, but I still think that the amount of injuries OAC has had since starting is normal for any pro team. It's also just true for everyone that as runners get older they get injured more often. When OAC started it was all runners fresh out of college, as they have runners that have been on the team longer the number of injuries are naturally going to creep up.
lowkey havent seen much out of this crew besides Nuguse and Beamish. Expecting more out of Klecker. Unc may be rolled.
That’s because there’s no one to talk about except Beamish and Nuguse. Honestly no one else has pulled their weight in recent memory. Of course there’s Obiri but as others have mentioned she’s basically on her own. I don’t feel confident that the new NCAA teammates made the right decision joining Ritz’s dismal group.
If an indoor world championship and an olympic medal still make it a "dismal group", then I'm not sure if words mean anything anymore.
That’s because there’s no one to talk about except Beamish and Nuguse. Honestly no one else has pulled their weight in recent memory. Of course there’s Obiri but as others have mentioned she’s basically on her own. I don’t feel confident that the new NCAA teammates made the right decision joining Ritz’s dismal group.
If an indoor world championship and an olympic medal still make it a "dismal group", then I'm not sure if words mean anything anymore.
Being real for a second, the group has actually done phenomenally since starting. Hoare and Beamish were original members and I don't think anyone would have predicted they would both get global championship medals. I thought Nuguse might actually be kind of a bust when he signed after he was injured at the Olympics and then wasn't fully healthy all outdoor in 2022. But even at his best in college, would anyone have thought he'd be a 3:43/3:27 guy with multiple medals? Make no mistake, the only reason we're talking about these guys being injured or underperforming is because Ritz got them performing in the first place to make us all take notice.
If an indoor world championship and an olympic medal still make it a "dismal group", then I'm not sure if words mean anything anymore.
Being real for a second, the group has actually done phenomenally since starting. Hoare and Beamish were original members and I don't think anyone would have predicted they would both get global championship medals. I thought Nuguse might actually be kind of a bust when he signed after he was injured at the Olympics and then wasn't fully healthy all outdoor in 2022. But even at his best in college, would anyone have thought he'd be a 3:43/3:27 guy with multiple medals? Make no mistake, the only reason we're talking about these guys being injured or underperforming is because Ritz got them performing in the first place to make us all take notice.
He ran 3:30 to beat Tim Cheruiyot, Jake Weightman, Josh Kerr, and basically everyone relevant in the event who isn't American or Jakob. I say it counts.
He ran 3:30 to beat Tim Cheruiyot, Jake Weightman, Josh Kerr, and basically everyone relevant in the event who isn't American or Jakob. I say it counts.
Whatever it was, it was an awesome victory and as good a field as you’re likely to get in a championship field short of Worlds/Olympics/USAs in a few events. Hoare absolutely deserves full marks for it. Kerr and Kipsang were in it too. So really just “missing” Katir among the top guys in 2022. Oh and Mario Garcia-Romo too.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.