So if Albertson works another job that means he and Susie Sullivan are better off working a job. What a joke.
Our best runners are upper middle class white, too comfortable. Distance running needs to be more diverse - missed opportunities. And no, it's not wokeism. It's the same for men's soccer, another sport where other countries are better than the US because the sport is open to the poor, rich and middle-class.
I largely agree with this in the context of many nations not only America. There are basically no elite level American talent going into the marathon until they are older and have done a few years of post collegiate professional track cycles. So, by the time they hit the roads for the marathon they may have great seed development from their track years but they are older and have less “shelf-life” left in them to get enough experience over the marathon to maximize their potential.
The piece I agree about from above is that it is a numbers game, to a large extent, and the less talent you have competing in an event the less consistent you will be. As has been mentioned by others, America has had notable successful marathon racers but they are consistent because there is a huge cohort of racers at that level, instead of a common upper tier of ability they are the peaks. Either way, you get the numbers up and the results are almost inevitable but right now, and I can’t see why this would change any time soon, all the potential is being poured into track distances.
We need to train for 3:00 kilometers, not 5:00 miles.
The 20-24 mile slow long run is not specific training. Like the Africans, we need to run longish miles at goal pace. The Sunday long run should be 30K at goal pace, not 22 miles at 60 seconds/mile slower than goal pace.
Younger runners need to commit to the marathon instead of trying to be a player at domestic 5/10K track events until their 30s.
Get rid of the GPS this, the 6% carb that, the blood meters, the bicarb pudding, and double thresholds. Those things are great to squeeze out marginal gains AFTER you run a 2:08. Too many athletes go for marginal gains before establishing the requisite physical and mental strength to be successful.
Stop logging all of your runs in super shoes! These give you a false sense of fitness and make you weaker over time.
Younger runners need to commit to the marathon instead of trying to be a player at domestic 5/10K track events until their 30s.
Americans have been competitively subpar for longer than most of the other stuff in this post have been around, but having younger guys competing early in the marathon might help.
Younger runners need to commit to the marathon instead of trying to be a player at domestic 5/10K track events until their 30s.
Americans have been competitively subpar for longer than most of the other stuff in this post have been around, but having younger guys competing early in the marathon might help.
It doesnt help the problem with competing at the top most likely, but i think this reason is why so many people are so high on Conner Mantz. Got into the marathon at 24/25 and in 2028 for the Olympics he will only be 31 at his 2nd Olympics with over 10 marathons under his belt barring injury. I can see him running 2:06 low next year in Chicago.
Need to start younger and put years and years of focus in the event to be at top level.
Look where Sara Hall was able to get after a half decade to decade of focusing on the event. It was just too late in her career and a damn shame she got into the peak shape of her marathoning life during the pandemic.
We need more athletes starting in their twenties and doing this. Hopefully Mantz starts a trend.
guys like Klecker need to go ahead and move up. He's wasting his time if he's trying to stick it out in the 5/10 until 2028. He'll be 31.
We could go back to the 90s when there were zero expectations for U.S. distance runners and knowing who (Janis) Klecker was certified you as a running freak.
A Kenyan woman just ran 2:09:55. We had two men faster than that. Our women were 11 minutes slower. We have every resource in the world through sponsors and we are also paid much much better each year and supported financially. How are we so bad at this? Is it just not being hungry enough? Is it genetics? Do we need more prize money?
We were better back in the Hall, Meb, Ritz, Abdi days. What gives? Even with our Olympians I'm not sure we would have been more than a minute faster than the Chicago womens champ.
A lot of it has to do with opportunity cost. If you’re a college-educated guy, unless you can run 2:05 it’s probably a better career decision to work a normal job. And if you have that kind of ability, you can probably succeed on the track for more money and honestly more fun (Fisher, Rupp when he was starting out). If an East African can make $30k a year doing marathons, it’s usually worth it, not so for Americans. And for Japanese it’s similar as they have corporate sponsorship, also jobs don’t pay as well there as the US and it’s very long hours, so you get a ton of 2:05-2:07 guys who wouldn’t have that financial support in the US.
Molly Seidel won bronze in '21. We put two men in the top ten this year. Both are capable of running 2:05. Rupp won bronze in 2016. I think the US has a decent track record.
Rupp only medaled because he was one of only two guys with super shoes
A Kenyan woman just ran 2:09:55. We had two men faster than that. Our women were 11 minutes slower. We have every resource in the world through sponsors and we are also paid much much better each year and supported financially. How are we so bad at this? Is it just not being hungry enough? Is it genetics? Do we need more prize money?
We were better back in the Hall, Meb, Ritz, Abdi days. What gives? Even with our Olympians I'm not sure we would have been more than a minute faster than the Chicago womens champ.
It’s a very easy answer NCAA coaches who job is to win by the quick fix of burn them out vs what’s needed is long term development of their athletes but they don’t reap the benefits and could put their job at risk by not performing aka winning.
The NCAA is everything which is wrong for American endurance running. Then add in golf course XC where time not distance is import.
A Kenyan woman just ran 2:09:55. We had two men faster than that. Our women were 11 minutes slower. We have every resource in the world through sponsors and we are also paid much much better each year and supported financially. How are we so bad at this? Is it just not being hungry enough? Is it genetics? Do we need more prize money?
We were better back in the Hall, Meb, Ritz, Abdi days. What gives? Even with our Olympians I'm not sure we would have been more than a minute faster than the Chicago womens champ.
Until our sub-27 guys move to the marathon .. yeah we’re going to be way behind the rest of the world. Our current marathon crew are slow over 10k …now days the very best of the best are sub-27.
Too many rich kids. Running/T&F are a tiny niche mostly for the affluent in the US. It also hurts that there is zero money in it. Only the already-comfortable can even afford to try hard.
Too many rich kids on Insta. Running/T&F are a tiny niche mostly for the affluent in the US. It also hurts that there is zero money in it. Only the already-comfortable can afford to try hard.
Last, the entire gamut of distance running focuses on Festivals of Running. Of the 40,000 on the course today and their families, NOBODY cared about the weirdo elites cranking away at the front of the course. What do the winners get? Not much.
Running is MUCH more good to goofballs like Kofuzi and Co., who get free entries, free perks, fawning followers and plenty of room for their selfie stick exploits.
"Hey Jemma, great job on the podium at Chicago. Now please remember that the NB880s are on sale this week. We need to push them hard to try to get rid of stock."
It's the sorting. We've got a great HS system for identifying people whose best event is 800-5K. Beyond that? You're a slow twitch plodder who might do okay in HS, and might get a chance to run D3.
Then follow that with an NCAA system that's great at identifying people whose best event is 1500-10K. Beyond that? You're a slow twitch plodder who might do okay as a hobby jogger, but you're not an NCAA star and you aren't competitive for a pro contract.
And behold the consequences: We've got Olympic medals this year at 1500, 5K and 10K, because we've figured out who the best of the best are. But the marathon talent pool is a lot thinner because we keep telling the best marathon talents that they're not future stars because they don't excel at 800-5K (duh), and then because they don't excel at 1500-10K (duh again). So they give up the sport or do some road races while they work full-time jobs.
Meanwhile we keep wondering why all these people who were good but nothing special in college are suddenly our top marathon finishers. Like Susanna Sullivan (who??) beating all the American pros at Chicago today.
You can't just take a good 5K/10K runner and turn them into a marathon star. Sometimes it works (like Mantz and Rupp) but often it doesn't (Ben True, Molly Huddle). If you want a deep bench of marathoners like the Japanese, you need a system that identifies marathon talent in high school and nourishes it during the early adult years, like the Japanese system does.
So if Albertson works another job that means he and Susie Sullivan are better off working a job. What a joke.
Our best runners are upper middle class white, too comfortable. Distance running needs to be more diverse - missed opportunities. And no, it's not wokeism. It's the same for men's soccer, another sport where other countries are better than the US because the sport is open to the poor, rich and middle-class.
It's sort of this, but more along the lines of lacking the right combination of meaningful challenge and meaningful support. Taking people out of their comfort zone and keeping their heads pointed in the right direction. Ryan Hall and Deena Kastor benefited from it just as much as Meb did. If there actually was magic in the air they breathe in Boulder or Flag just from living there then we wouldn't see what we saw today: top Americans from the decidedly non-meccas of Reston, VA and Fresno, CA. Maybe there aren't beautifully perfect trails and rarified air in those places but there's certainly one other thing these two didn't find there: complacency.
IF all American runners think that the fast Africans are all on drugs, they will always struggle to match those legitimate fast times and claim they are doing all they can and do no more.