Maybe people in duh South East call it the North East, but here in the Northeast we spell it as one word. You obviously have a google machine, so start typing and report back.
Dude, who cares? You are posting over a spelling difference. How much of a nerd/loser are you?
This post was edited 27 seconds after it was posted.
I'm from the Northeast with college age kids. Basically what I'm seeing is that it's a "cool" thing right now to go to big schools down south. Mostly it's weathier kids that can't get into the Villanova, BC, Penn State type schools, kids that are more focused on the experience of college and less concerned about academics. Their parents are happy to gear up in "Hotty Toddy" or Gamecocks and post photos tailgating with their kids at football games on parents weekend. I don't think it's a statement on anything besides the draw of big football and party schools and logos that look good enough to wear on your polo at the country club. It's also seems like it is the same demographic here of people who are in the north and like country music. I grew up in the South and live in the Northeast so it's all kind of fascinating to me. Also from a lot of areas of the north, the schools are drivable for at least move in and move out so it's a lot easier to go down south than go the west coast.
People make choosing a college far more complicated than it needs to be. Go to the best school you're accepted to. If you're accepted to multiple that are basically equal, then pick the one you like the best. Then if you don't like it or aren't satisfied with the academics, transfer to an equal or better one.
With this article, everyone they profiled is from NY. A Clemson or whatever degree is basically equal to a NY public.
This happened with my son and his friend group here in the North East.
All of them picked southern colleges despite almost all of the parents being alums from North East schools.
Big selling point were the actual tours we went on.
Northeast college tour guides were either 1) Obese 2) Purple haired and talked about their sexual preference more than the actual school 3) Talked about politics and protests.
Southern college tour guides were 1) bubbly blonde girls and a 2) frat bro student athlete who was fun to be around. 3) Talked about the fun stuff that happens on campus.
No surprise that southern schools are more popular. Job market post graduation is so much better for southern schools as well.
I don't really believe this.
My kids took a ton of tours at schools throughout the Northeast. Nobody brought up politics or sexual preference. Can't remember hair color or weight of the tour guide, but that's a pretty weird thing to be focused on, or even care about. They ended up going to schools in the Northeast and they had great experiences. No regrets at all.
Nothing wrong with schools in the south, though. To each his own.
Makes sense for people who want to study easy subjects and party. Leaves more spots at the elite institutions for those with productive goals like professional degrees (MD/JD) or STEM research.
This post makes me question everything else you write on LRC. You can't be this obtuse. UNC and UVA law and medicine and business? NCSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson for engineering and chem and design? These are some of the best degrees in the nation. Maybe not Ivy level degrees, but very few people care. And you can always throw a Harvard or Penn graduate degree on top if you're top of the class.
Makes sense for people who want to study easy subjects and party. Leaves more spots at the elite institutions for those with productive goals like professional degrees (MD/JD) or STEM research.
This post makes me question everything else you write on LRC. You can't be this obtuse. UNC and UVA law and medicine and business? NCSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson for engineering and chem and design? These are some of the best degrees in the nation. Maybe not Ivy level degrees, but very few people care. And you can always throw a Harvard or Penn graduate degree on top if you're top of the class.
Unfortunately he really is that dumb. He’s been unequivocally proving it for years. Don’t bother with him, you could have him dead to rights in the most obvious way and he just stays obtuse.
This happened with my son and his friend group here in the North East.
All of them picked southern colleges despite almost all of the parents being alums from North East schools.
Big selling point were the actual tours we went on.
Northeast college tour guides were either 1) Obese 2) Purple haired and talked about their sexual preference more than the actual school 3) Talked about politics and protests.
Southern college tour guides were 1) bubbly blonde girls and a 2) frat bro student athlete who was fun to be around. 3) Talked about the fun stuff that happens on campus.
No surprise that southern schools are more popular. Job market post graduation is so much better for southern schools as well.
I don't really believe this.
My kids took a ton of tours at schools throughout the Northeast. Nobody brought up politics or sexual preference. Can't remember hair color or weight of the tour guide, but that's a pretty weird thing to be focused on, or even care about. They ended up going to schools in the Northeast and they had great experiences. No regrets at all.
Nothing wrong with schools in the south, though. To each his own.
So because my family had a different experience it's fake? That literally makes no sense.
My kids took a ton of tours at schools throughout the Northeast. Nobody brought up politics or sexual preference. Can't remember hair color or weight of the tour guide, but that's a pretty weird thing to be focused on, or even care about. They ended up going to schools in the Northeast and they had great experiences. No regrets at all.
Nothing wrong with schools in the south, though. To each his own.
So because my family had a different experience it's fake? That literally makes no sense.
Yeah, you're right.
It's surprising, though. I'm pretty sure that the kids who give those tours are told in training not to get into subjects like politics or sexual preference, or anything other than how great the school is. I guess the kids don't have to follow the training, but they won't remain tour guides for very long that way.
And yes, my experience was much different than yours.
Just brutal for the northeast. Turns out kids prefer a fun community atmosphere, not activism and drama. No doubt the prettier girls make a difference too(southern belles that look like women vs blue haired activists at columbia)
Translation: Northeast Ivies, Little Ivies and Hidden Ivies rejecting more and more students.
exactly. the common thread of the WSJ list is state schools. my guess is it'd be people who either can't get in or afford a full price quality private school, which is going up and up and up, or don't want to borrow. and while this type might want cheaper state school tuition, for whatever reason they don't want to go to SUNY/CUNY or the equivalent in their state. a southern state school, even out of state tuition, is then cheaper than a northern private, and while more than their state school, is also generally better known and these days perhaps esteemed higher by the rankings.
that would also be the big change these days is florida, GA tech and some of the other flagships, that used to be glorified football schools with average test scores, becoming second or third tier below the ivies. i mean, if you can't get in columbia or cornell, and don't want SUNY-Cortland, maybe clemson makes sense. ditto if you can get in MIT, GA Tech might be ok.
but if money is no object, there are endless schools up north that are pretty good, patriot league, NESCAC, some of the UAA. i don't buy this is the smart kids, unless it's GA tech. i buy this is kids who decide they want the big school state U experience, parties, football, etc.
that and going to some state school like clemson would seem "basic." like someone who likes beers or oreo cookies. like going to ohio state or something. everyone's heard of the football team, you don't have to sell or explain where you went. you are kind of just a number and likely won't be on the sports team, but that's what some people want.
We had similar experiences as Pontoise a few years ago. We live in Queens in a very diverse area so this talk and look isn't a shock to us. On our tours we were always inundated with diversity, pronouns, and the clubs mentioned focused on what pontoise pointed out.
My son couldn't wait to get out of the northeast and chose a school for its sports atmosphere and good business school.
Makes sense for people who want to study easy subjects and party. Leaves more spots at the elite institutions for those with productive goals like professional degrees (MD/JD) or STEM research.
This post makes me question everything else you write on LRC. You can't be this obtuse. UNC and UVA law and medicine and business? NCSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson for engineering and chem and design? These are some of the best degrees in the nation. Maybe not Ivy level degrees, but very few people care. And you can always throw a Harvard or Penn graduate degree on top if you're top of the class.
They're some of the best, absolutely.
However, nobody who gets into, say, the big research Ivies (HYP, Penn, Columbia, maybe Cornell) is turning that down for UNC, NCSU, GT if they want to go to law/med or do STEM research.
That's the point.
The Northeast still wins for those with the most ambition and the options.
This post makes me question everything else you write on LRC. You can't be this obtuse. UNC and UVA law and medicine and business? NCSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson for engineering and chem and design? These are some of the best degrees in the nation. Maybe not Ivy level degrees, but very few people care. And you can always throw a Harvard or Penn graduate degree on top if you're top of the class.
Unfortunately he really is that dumb. He’s been unequivocally proving it for years. Don’t bother with him, you could have him dead to rights in the most obvious way and he just stays obtuse.
The poster admits UNC/GT/UVA degrees are worse than most Ivies for the subjects I said. That's all I was saying.
If people want to go to a lower tier school it's because they are optimizing for college experience, not academic opportunities or post-grad success.
Very few people care about going to an elite Law or Med school, or being an R01 professor, or working high finance but for those that do, the choices are still obvious.
WSJ has been pushing some version of this for a bit now with stuff like their idea of what ivy-plus should now be, which usually consists of dropping west coast and northern schools in favor of southern state schools, UT, florida, GA tech.
i don't buy the headline's elite student premise whatsoever. no kid with near perfect grades and SAT who loses the harvard lottery is decamping to clemson. ("sorry, harvard....."). bull. they will go to a lesser ivy, or a NESCAC, or a UAA, or pomona/caltech, or one of the west coast ivy pluses, or rice, or chicago. some kids in specific majors might go to GA Tech.
no, the sort of student who might consider a southern state school would be more like 1200-1300 SAT, solid but not incredible grades, wants to party and do the big state school thing, doesn't care if they play sports anymore. in other words, second rate. that's not competition for harvard. that's competition for something like rutgers or BU or BC or temple or syracuse. expensive state schools or privates with big campuses and D1-A sports, often in the middle of a city. yeah, given that choice someone might be like, florida or clemson seems as good or better than this.
but that's not ivy plus. that's the kid in the top 10% with a 1270 who if he runs track does a 4:50 mile or 11.9 second 100m.
My cousin's son grew up in NJ and ended up at Emory. He stayed in the south after graduation. I have also run across some young attorneys who migrated south from the NE. I think the main issue is that the meritocracy in the northeast is very stifling. In order to get in to an Ivy, you have to basically get all As, max out the AP credits, max out the standardized test scores and start a non profit that teaches truck drivers how to write haiku. If you don't get into an Ivy, you are immediately considered second rate and your job prospects are immediately limited in hyper competitive markets like corporate leadership, law, finance and medicine. And the second tier schools are all outrageously expensive private schools like Colgate, Tufts, BU, Carnegie Mellon, Johns Hopkins, etc. While there are some very good public schools like William and Mary, Rutgers, UVA, etc., most of the public schools in the northeast are pretty bleak. They have lousy sports teams, cruddy campuses and fancy employers in the northeast will not even look at your resume if you have a U. Mass or SUNY on it.
In the south, you really can be free from that meritocracy. With the exception of some c-suite positions, most employers in the south are happy to have someone who went to Auburn, UGA, Clemson, etc. And the alumni networks from these schools can be a big help in landing a job or starting a business and finding clients. Getting in to southern schools is relatively easy compared to the Ivies and second tier schools. However, that is starting to change. At University of Texas, most of the seats are reserved for in-state students because you automatically get admitted if you finish in the top 10% of your high school. So, the out of state acceptance rate at UT is now about 10%. But there are all comers schools like University of Mississippi and pay to play schools like SMU, Texas Tech, etc.
Translation: Northeast Ivies, Little Ivies and Hidden Ivies rejecting more and more students.
exactly. the common thread of the WSJ list is state schools. my guess is it'd be people who either can't get in or afford a full price quality private school, which is going up and up and up, or don't want to borrow. and while this type might want cheaper state school tuition, for whatever reason they don't want to go to SUNY/CUNY or the equivalent in their state. a southern state school, even out of state tuition, is then cheaper than a northern private, and while more than their state school, is also generally better known and these days perhaps esteemed higher by the rankings.
that would also be the big change these days is florida, GA tech and some of the other flagships, that used to be glorified football schools with average test scores, becoming second or third tier below the ivies. i mean, if you can't get in columbia or cornell, and don't want SUNY-Cortland, maybe clemson makes sense. ditto if you can get in MIT, GA Tech might be ok.
but if money is no object, there are endless schools up north that are pretty good, patriot league, NESCAC, some of the UAA. i don't buy this is the smart kids, unless it's GA tech. i buy this is kids who decide they want the big school state U experience, parties, football, etc.
that and going to some state school like clemson would seem "basic." like someone who likes beers or oreo cookies. like going to ohio state or something. everyone's heard of the football team, you don't have to sell or explain where you went. you are kind of just a number and likely won't be on the sports team, but that's what some people want.
I agree as this sums up my kid. We didn't apply to Ivies but I doubt he would have gotten in. He didn't want nescac, UAA schools and other small schools in the northeast (not that he would have necessarily gotten in to "elite" schools) and we wouldn't spend 60k or more a year. Yes he wanted a big school experience with a school that is not only known for sports but its strong job placement and networking opportunities.
We had similar experiences as Pontoise a few years ago. We live in Queens in a very diverse area so this talk and look isn't a shock to us. On our tours we were always inundated with diversity, pronouns, and the clubs mentioned focused on what pontoise pointed out.
My son couldn't wait to get out of the northeast and chose a school for its sports atmosphere and good business school.
the minute you start throwing around pronouns or diversity dismissively, this is about politics and not school quality.
at that point, the big things that have changed are in the cities southerners no longer reflexively dislike and marginalize carpetbaggers, and gladly want to be just as ideological the other direction and greet anyone who salutes it. you will fit in great as long as you follow whatever trump whims are popular down here.
if you are the wrong side of that, criticize conservative politicians, liberal, gay, black, darker skinned hispanic, not religious, not a preppie, etc. -- it's less cute and attractive.