Balancing Accountability and Empathy in the Camille Herron Debate

I agree. However, Letsrun is the last place to go to “bring out the best in the ultrarunning community”.

My opinion of Camille is the same as it was before this scandal: I’m pretty indifferent.

The internet allows people to truly express themselves from the safety of their keyboard. And mob mentality still plays a role on the internet, so you’re seeing an ugly mixture of human nature on display.

but it’ll blow over in a month or so. Does anyone remember Matt Fox’s debacle from last month? Nary a peep now.

To be clear, my intention is not to generate sympathy for the guilty, they sure need to be accountable for what they have done. But there is always room for empathy. However, we're still waiting for Camille to publicly apologize for her behaviour and for Conor to understand the bigger picture of what his abusive language (as well as editing other athletes' Wikipedia pages) does by hurting people.

Maybe civilized language is too much to ask for these days...

We accuse them of opportunistically kicking other athletes when they are up, like doing really well, not down.

This is not “tragic” by far, just a cringe-inducing act by them that deserves the ridicule and shame.

I understand you want to come across as special and more empathetic compared to everyone else, but there is no need to start yet another thread for what is not even a new observation.

Yeah, they're kicking on others who are "up", so that comparison is halting, I agree.

I have no prestige in this whatsoever, and I don't want to come across as more empathetic (everyone here is hiding behind nicks anyway). I just want us to think about what language we're using, when attacking people who we think have done more wrong than us. Not sure how to ask for such a discussion in another way in a forum like this.

Oh, NOW you want to get all thoughtful.

it's an easy fix.

come forward with a genuine apology, show some contrition and get help. if she did this I'm sure most people would let it slide.

when you double down on your bad behavior and put the blame on others then people get annoyed.

Gosh. Seems like the very people who would need it the most are the ones who don't want to understand. I guess that's why I usually avoid forums like this, where people can't see who's talking and there is no need to take responsibility for abusive language. The fact that Conor & Camille need to take responsibility for their bad behaviour doesn't mean we need to use abusive language when being angry. Or else we can never see the human behind.

Agree totally.

That wikipedia "scandal" was the straw that broke the camels back. In my 38 years of ultrarunning, I have never seen anything like this. Usually top ultrarunners are very humble and approachable. Camille Herron and her husband Conor Holt are just a piece of work. Everything is about them, which was perfectly exposed when 4 longtime wiki editors "bullied" Camille according to her husband. No, they were just doing what wiki editors do and that is cleaning up one sided written articles about a subject and if there is a good example for that, it's her wiki entry.

They were obsessively controlling their social media pages and any not so flattering opinions about her on any forums like this one.

At the last 24 hour World Championships after things didn't go so well for Camille she decided to quit. Instead of helping her other US team members to get through the final hours they just marched away and where not be seen again.

In the last month she protested a couple of new world best performances from fellow runners. There are plenty of other stories out there.

Just because you are good at something does not mean you have to be an a s s to everybody else.

Camille Herron is a prime example for bad sportsmanship and that is pretty sad. That wiki scandal which came to light was just the latest proof of that.

I have no empathy for people who create redundant threads. Your take on the situation does not warrant a new thread. You should have kept it on one of the two active threads on the topic. I hope you get accountability in the form of this thread being removed.

Sorry if I did that wrong. Haven't really used Letsrun before. And I'll probably avoid it in the future. It's not a platform for healthy social behaviour.

This is one or more people with undeniably bad intent acting in foolish, but minimally harmful ways. And a bunch of people on the internet rushing to pass judgement on someone they have never (nor will likely ever) met, of course.

Add in a slow news cycle, and it’s a perfect storm for something being blown way out of proportion. There’s no profound lesson to learn from this “tragedy” (lol). Better to just shake your head and move on.

This type of personality will never fully come clean and issue a mea culpa. They will fight it out and blame others, which continues to stir the pot.

Owning the transgressions and issuing a sincere heart felt apology would do a lot to mend relations within the community. I don't think either could ever bring themselves to do that. It will always be someone else's fault.

Also, it's hard to overlook that this couple actively attempted to completely destroy an ultra runner at Badwater. As far as I'm aware that runner didn't start anything with them to receive such treatment.

Apology accepted. I apologize for being overly harsh. Duplicate threads are a pet peeve of mine. I spend way too much time here to be so bothered by them.

I can see you are a kind person with good intentions. The world and this board need more people like you.

How exactly is contesting a victory “completely destroying an ultra runner”? More Chady Bullshish.

It is her prerogative to do so, there is no law against it and she probably DID think it was justified. She obviously didn’t care if it made her seem whiny and in the end was disproven to no detriment.

I think the boring-azz ‘sport’ of ultra running needs MORE contention and trash talk. Will still never be legit running like the 1500 but will be like the weird, drunken, Jerry Springer-esk, black sheep of running events it was meant to be.

So in summation, they should double down on these tactics. Take more of a professional wrestling approach.

And as others have stated, was the apparent "protagonist" in the fight to prove Ashley Paulson was a cheat at Badwater. It's actually kind of funny looking back at that situation and thinking how everyone treated Herron as an expert witness, almost. Turns out she was just denigrating any woman who did something in ultrarunning that she hadn't done herself, as is her habit.

I am wondering what abusive language you've seen people use about her? I've read through most of the threads on here about this and I haven't really seen anyone use any abusive language towards her just calling her out for bad behavior?

Can you give any specific examples of whats being said about her that is abusive?