And historically 800 athletes don't do altitude training and change their training up at age 26 either.
Or he’s doping. Great article. They are never going sub 1:40 without pharmaceuticals though. I do think the WR will be broken but it also wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t see times this fast again for years since they got the Olympic year bump
Arch was John Walkers coach, who predicted Walkers WR, when his PB was 338, which came true except Bayi broke it as well for the win.
meaning coached now and then really dont think 139 is out if reach.
really back in the day they were running 143 144 with suspect training, nutrition, and suboptimal tracks, but the athletes themselves, may have had better talent than today.
Nobody ever meant under 1:42 without PEDs either, imho.
snell on grass 144 in 1963 with dodgy rabbit. in a one off attempt.
no
This is my favorite aspect of the 800: the crazy historical runs that stand the test of time. Sure there are plenty of incredible marks from back in the day in other events, but what other event has such a collection of them? You mention Snell on grass in the 60s but there was also Ralph Doubell's WR tie at altitude in 68 in the Olympic final, Fiasconaro sub 1:44 in 73 in a duel meet after only starting track two years earlier, Coe's 79 and 81 records to break the event further, and even as far back as Rudolf Harbig's incredible 1:46 in 1939! There has always been talent in the event but maybe not always the consistency of some of the other events, especially the mile/1500. I think part of this is due to the overall "glory" of other events (1500 is more "prestigious" to go after and 400 is shorter and you can run relays for more medal chances so people may opt up or down) but also the training, requiring both the endurance aspect of longer races without being able to get away from the high-end speed training. This means 800 training is almost unavoidably flirting with the redline of injury.
False. We love you all. We just love those who pay us a little bit more. Just like how an airline gives extra perks to those who pay more. Did you not see we said you can read it for free right now if you just sign up for our newsletter or follow us on social media?
I don’t see the option to read it for free, I just signed up for the newsletter.
After you sign up, send us an email at and we'll email you a link,
Is it possible there is also a Jakob side effect? Usually the 800m does not attract a lot of talent as most of the middle distance runners prefer to focus on the more prestigious mile/1500. But with Jakob dominating the 1500 in recent years we are seeing more talent switch to run the 800 instead?
Is it possible there is also a Jakob side effect? Usually the 800m does not attract a lot of talent as most of the middle distance runners prefer to focus on the more prestigious mile/1500. But with Jakob dominating the 1500 in recent years we are seeing more talent switch to run the 800 instead?
Recent years? 2/2/4 at global champs is dominating?
The one-turn stagger has been my biggest gripe with the current 800 format. It’s good for racing, but leads to too much burnout early on for sake of positioning.
Personally, I think the 800 could benefit from a three-turn stagger. As far as a comparison, the 4x400 already does it over its first two legs.
Better yet, the women’s relay are running nearly the same pace as the 800m men. Wouldn’t that imply it’s best to be in separate lanes at ~50 second pace?
My point is, it’s odd to excite the idea of times with a race format that’s almost self sabotaging to the athlete that pursues it.
Please keep Armstronglivs' flooding out of this thread.
You always show what your obsession is - which is nothing on the thread subject. You apparently don't know that this is a site that allows for the expression of opinions - which means they don't have to be ones that meet with your approval.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
The one-turn stagger has been my biggest gripe with the current 800 format. It’s good for racing, but leads to too much burnout early on for sake of positioning.
Personally, I think the 800 could benefit from a three-turn stagger. As far as a comparison, the 4x400 already does it over its first two legs.
Better yet, the women’s relay are running nearly the same pace as the 800m men. Wouldn’t that imply it’s best to be in separate lanes at ~50 second pace?
My point is, it’s odd to excite the idea of times with a race format that’s almost self sabotaging to the athlete that pursues it.
Could work at the pro level but I say keep it the same for college/hs. I loved the one-turn stagger when I was running, added some unpredictability and maybe a little skill to judge where the field is at as you're approaching the break-in point
Burns said that what is currently happening in the 800 could be a toned-down version of what speed skating experienced when clap skates were introduced in the 1990s.
“You wouldn’t put [the clap skates] on and immediately start skating faster,” Burns said. “But if you trained for a while, you would change your skating technique to take advantage of that greater range of motion that the clap skate allowed…After this transition period of a few years, all the world records were smashed.”
Burns is confident that something similar has been happening in the 800 and more sprint-oriented events with athletes subtly, perhaps unconsciously, refining their form to take advantage of the new spikes.
I thought this was an interesting comparison, and it's the best reason I've heard for why the 800 has finally started improving. Before this he talks about footstrike impacting how much benefit you get from the shoes, so I think the implication is 800 runners have subconsciously adjusted to have more of a midfoot strike than being on their toes. I wonder if 8/15 guys like Kessler benefit from the spikes more than pure 800 guys or 4/8 guys because they already run like that.
Ok, I'm usually someone who resists the idea that supershoes are a component to the explosion in 800 times but now I'm entertaining an idea. Even though the spikes have been around since 2020, I did just notices that the Adidas Ambition got a pretty big update this past year. This is significant because it's the spike of choice for Wanyonyi, Arop, Hoppel, and Tual. Sedjati is the only non-adidas athlete in that sub 1:42 bracket (and he wore OG Dragonflys until the Paris final when he opted for Dragonfly 2s). The new Ambitions seem to have been rolled out just this spring, as I found pictures of Hoppel wearing the old Ambitions at World Indoors this year and Arop won worlds last year in them. The spikes don't seem that wildly different but the timing of their release and the glut of top Adidas athletes in the 800 have piqued my interest.
In over 40 years the 800 record has only been lowered by 0.82 of a second, going back to Coe, while Rudisha's 2012 record still stands. Coe was a phenomenon and Rudisha was a true stand-out in the event. To improve upon Rudisha's record by 0.91 secs simply isn't possible, bar two developments (likely combined) - technology, such as innovations in tracks and shoes beyond anything currently seen, and drugs that are more powerful than any previously used. The latter is likely a work in progress.
The one-turn stagger has been my biggest gripe with the current 800 format. It’s good for racing, but leads to too much burnout early on for sake of positioning.
Personally, I think the 800 could benefit from a three-turn stagger. As far as a comparison, the 4x400 already does it over its first two legs.
Better yet, the women’s relay are running nearly the same pace as the 800m men. Wouldn’t that imply it’s best to be in separate lanes at ~50 second pace?
My point is, it’s odd to excite the idea of times with a race format that’s almost self sabotaging to the athlete that pursues it.
Could work at the pro level but I say keep it the same for college/hs. I loved the one-turn stagger when I was running, added some unpredictability and maybe a little skill to judge where the field is at as you're approaching the break-in point
Agreed. Amateur level is open season.
Funnily enough, I sometimes miss the waterfall start. Even though it can be rough on some, early contact is usually the worst you get, and you get it done early.
That being said, I’m sure I’ve got my nostalgia lenses there, haha.
Please keep Armstronglivs' flooding out of this thread.
You always show what your obsession is - which is nothing on the thread subject. You apparently don't know that this is a site that allows for the expression of opinions - which means they don't have to be ones that meet with your approval.
You are showing your poor reading comprehension again. I never asked for your opinion to be silenced. Only to keep your usual flooding of repetitive posts out of here. This is a fascinating topic and I am thankful that there is a platform where it can be discussed by people who are genuinely interested in it.
Sedjati and Wanyonyi are the type of North/East African double act that has disappeared off the face of the Earth when it comes to the 1500m.
I'm inclined to the possibility that those two are doped out of their minds, and will likely get busted soon, and that they have been dragging the others around to fast times.
Reading the 'Project 99' article (or the first part), I'm also inclined to be suspicious of Arop's crazy improvement, but discussing him seems to be out of bounds here.
He dominates the event - he IS the pacesetter, while Kerr hides, races if he has to of course… and he was still CRUSHED by Hocker in Paris then again in Zurich by Yared, Jakob, Hocker, and Laros even though he hid from competition for a month resting up for the race. Get over your agony over Jakob consistently running well, winner or not, while Kerr cries into his Guinness dreaming of what might have been.
The one-turn stagger has been my biggest gripe with the current 800 format. It’s good for racing, but leads to too much burnout early on for sake of positioning.
Personally, I think the 800 could benefit from a three-turn stagger. As far as a comparison, the 4x400 already does it over its first two legs.
Better yet, the women’s relay are running nearly the same pace as the 800m men. Wouldn’t that imply it’s best to be in separate lanes at ~50 second pace?
My point is, it’s odd to excite the idea of times with a race format that’s almost self sabotaging to the athlete that pursues it.
No thank you, Athing. It's more exciting the way it is with real racing.