That's not what he is saying. What he is saying is that those faster guys are not sure Jakob can't follow then at 12:3x pace.
Of course the faster guys are not sure Jakob can’t follow at 12:3x pace. -Nobody knows for sure how fast Jakob can run, but everybody knows he can run relatively fast, whatever that means. And when f.x Armstronglivs thinks Jakob can do close to 12.40 that doesn’t mean that the quarrel is about if he can do 12.39 or not -Armstronglivs has stated that he sees no evidence of Jakob being a WR man in the 5000m, and I agree. And I also agree with him that Jakob’s many 5000m wins are no evidence of WR capabilities.
As you point out I possibly misplaced my answer since Koltrast not specifically (in his last post) says the things I call out, but I think he (and others) has done so in multiple other posts. But if I misrepresent / misremember his view I hope he corrects me. -I’m not here to win a discussion (by all means)…
I see no evidence of a Jakob capability of breaking the 5000m WR, but I neither see any evidence against it. But I see indications of 5000m not being his sweet spot, and therefore 12.35 hard to reach. (Because he then fades from his sweet point 3000m).
I’m a huge Jakob fan in so many ways, and on the track he has already outrun a lot of my biggest expectations, although I think it’s more to come. But if 5000m turns out to be his sweet spot I think I would be so happy and surprised that I would be sleepless for at least 3 nights. And if the sweet spot is the 10000m I think I need sleeping medication for the first time in my life. The half marathon as a sweet spot: Anti psychotics should be considered, and the marathon I don’t even want to talk about..!
I think there’s something “wrong” with Jakob, and I don’t necessarily mean that in a negative way:
Alternatives:
1. He had for some reason an unusual bad day (shape) in Copenhagen, that both affected his 10k and half marathon abilities severely. -Not too likely in my opinion since he is extremely consistent, and hasn’t had a long season (no indoors/xc), and has tackled less than 36 hours between events quite good many times. But a sickness some weeks earlier, 5 months winter training with very little running, thinning of his training in the track season, might have contributed to a bad performance. But why then this extreme difference in the quality of his 3/5k’s and a 10k/HM in good conditions and favourable drafting..?
2. Jakob is totally wrong when he claims to be better the longer the distance -this is unfounded dream thinking. My comment to this alternative is only that it might be true (Jakob looked at others that superficially have his traits, and -wrongly- identified with their range).
3. Jakob being correct in his assessment of his own talent (better the longer distance), but being incorrect in his claims about having a good long distance training. If this is correct he eventually have to change his training drastically to have any chance in the 10k and above…
I’m really looking forward to Jakob explaining what is hugely wrong in his earlier claims. For now I agree with Armstronglivs that he looked like a turkey trot in Copenhagen. And I would add that he should hang his head in shame, wear a blind fold and a mask and a huge hood to conceal his shame, although he somewhat makes up for it all with his tough struggle and not taking the easy way out, and all the other things he does that hugely makes someone like me respect him like almost no other…!
Rather than the 5000m being his sweet spot, the question whether it’s within his range.
Rather than the 5000m being his sweet spot, the question whether it’s within his range.
I agree. But if 3000m is his sweet spot, let’s then do a thought experiment: For the sake of it let’s give Jakob 3.25 high and 7.14 high when all is said and done in those two events. Conclusion: As expected he fades from his very best (3000m; his very best distance -the definition of sweet spot) and gradually downwards to the 1500m (3.25 high being significantly “worse” than 7.14 high). And the same upwards: At 4500m he has lost quite a lot to his 3000m level, but might still be the best in the world (like in the comparable 1500m). But there’s 500m left to reach 5000m -here he loses everything to the WR. And in the 10000m he would be “unexpectedly” bad…
How many of those 5k races did he fail to finish first?
Did he defeat any sub 12:40 guys in those races?
It doesn't matter where he finished and who he beat. None of it has led to him running faster than 12:48 and running anywhere near 12:35.
You may not have noticed it yet, what with you being drunk and all that, but this thread is not about Jakob's 5000m or HM times. Try to stay on topic. Thanks.
Are you saying it's irrelevant that the people who actually knows what he's capable of since they're competing against him, with better PRs, aren't making races faster, meaning he doesn't need to run faster than 12:48 to win every single 5k final he's competed in as a senior? I'd say it's quite the opposite.
Again, why do you think nobody runs faster than 12:48 when they're competing against him if that time is so slow like you're claiming it is?
12:48 is 13 seconds slower than the wr. Winning tactical races hasn't improved his best time. Nothing you argue changes that fact.
Why are you unable to answer a simple question? Why is every race Jakob is in a tactical race when he's facing the fastest field the event has seen? Why do you think they don't want to run a fast race against someone who runs the 3k in 7:17?
You may be right. But until he shows it he is no faster than 12:48 and remains nowhere near the wr. So when is he going to break it - since you guys are so sure he will?
You also left out whether - or when - he will get the HM record, which he has also said he wants.
This kind of comment make me remember like it was yesterday when back in 2019 some people were saying he will never run under 3:30, and he will never beat Tim.
You may be right. But until he shows it he is no faster than 12:48 and remains nowhere near the wr. So when is he going to break it - since you guys are so sure he will?
You also left out whether - or when - he will get the HM record, which he has also said he wants.
This kind of comment make me remember like it was yesterday when back in 2019 some people were saying he will never run under 3:30, and he will never beat Tim.
Also I remember vividly when he ran 7:27 in 2020 and got beat by Kiplimo, some were saying that it his peak and he will never run under 7:27 lol
The question isnt about me. It is about Ingebrigtsen. But you understand nothing about what motivates elite athletes. Why should you? You've achieved nothing in sports.
What have you achieved in sports again?
If the question isn't about you and your fantastic claims, what are you doing here?
If it is about Ingebrigtsen, then he wasn't sure he could even finish, after a season of 1500m. That is the proper reference to judge his race.
But here you have deluded yourself into fantastically claiming "most expected" him to run 57 minutes -- a claim you no longer stand by and keep backpedalling from. This is part of a long pattern.
Do you even know where you stand?
The "proper reference" for his HM was that he has described it as his "best distance" - and that he says gets progressively worse as the distances shorten. You obviously don't believe what he says - when it doesn't suit you.
I haven't backpedalled. I have said there were expectations he would be competitive and might even threaten the wr. You said nothing to dispute that before the race - your endless excuses came after. They never stop.
Of course the faster guys are not sure Jakob can’t follow at 12:3x pace. -Nobody knows for sure how fast Jakob can run, but everybody knows he can run relatively fast, whatever that means. And when f.x Armstronglivs thinks Jakob can do close to 12.40 that doesn’t mean that the quarrel is about if he can do 12.39 or not -Armstronglivs has stated that he sees no evidence of Jakob being a WR man in the 5000m, and I agree. And I also agree with him that Jakob’s many 5000m wins are no evidence of WR capabilities.
As you point out I possibly misplaced my answer since Koltrast not specifically (in his last post) says the things I call out, but I think he (and others) has done so in multiple other posts. But if I misrepresent / misremember his view I hope he corrects me. -I’m not here to win a discussion (by all means)…
I see no evidence of a Jakob capability of breaking the 5000m WR, but I neither see any evidence against it. But I see indications of 5000m not being his sweet spot, and therefore 12.35 hard to reach. (Because he then fades from his sweet point 3000m).
I’m a huge Jakob fan in so many ways, and on the track he has already outrun a lot of my biggest expectations, although I think it’s more to come. But if 5000m turns out to be his sweet spot I think I would be so happy and surprised that I would be sleepless for at least 3 nights. And if the sweet spot is the 10000m I think I need sleeping medication for the first time in my life. The half marathon as a sweet spot: Anti psychotics should be considered, and the marathon I don’t even want to talk about..!
I think there’s something “wrong” with Jakob, and I don’t necessarily mean that in a negative way:
Alternatives:
1. He had for some reason an unusual bad day (shape) in Copenhagen, that both affected his 10k and half marathon abilities severely. -Not too likely in my opinion since he is extremely consistent, and hasn’t had a long season (no indoors/xc), and has tackled less than 36 hours between events quite good many times. But a sickness some weeks earlier, 5 months winter training with very little running, thinning of his training in the track season, might have contributed to a bad performance. But why then this extreme difference in the quality of his 3/5k’s and a 10k/HM in good conditions and favourable drafting..?
2. Jakob is totally wrong when he claims to be better the longer the distance -this is unfounded dream thinking. My comment to this alternative is only that it might be true (Jakob looked at others that superficially have his traits, and -wrongly- identified with their range).
3. Jakob being correct in his assessment of his own talent (better the longer distance), but being incorrect in his claims about having a good long distance training. If this is correct he eventually have to change his training drastically to have any chance in the 10k and above…
I’m really looking forward to Jakob explaining what is hugely wrong in his earlier claims. For now I agree with Armstronglivs that he looked like a turkey trot in Copenhagen. And I would add that he should hang his head in shame, wear a blind fold and a mask and a huge hood to conceal his shame, although he somewhat makes up for it all with his tough struggle and not taking the easy way out, and all the other things he does that hugely makes someone like me respect him like almost no other…!
Rather than the 5000m being his sweet spot, the question whether it’s within his range.
That is a fair question. But if it is within his range, is the wr also? I doubt it. He won't get it if it doesn't match his 3k capacity.
It doesn't matter where he finished and who he beat. None of it has led to him running faster than 12:48 and running anywhere near 12:35.
You may not have noticed it yet, what with you being drunk and all that, but this thread is not about Jakob's 5000m or HM times. Try to stay on topic. Thanks.
Then you should point that out to all the other posters here.
12:48 is 13 seconds slower than the wr. Winning tactical races hasn't improved his best time. Nothing you argue changes that fact.
Why are you unable to answer a simple question? Why is every race Jakob is in a tactical race when he's facing the fastest field the event has seen? Why do you think they don't want to run a fast race against someone who runs the 3k in 7:17?
They are tactical races because the fastest races over the distance are much faster than the times Ingebrigtsen has recorded. "Fast fields" don't always run their fastest races. Rio 2016 1500. Until Ingebrigtsen gets near 12:40 he shows no sign of being able to take the wr.
You may be right. But until he shows it he is no faster than 12:48 and remains nowhere near the wr. So when is he going to break it - since you guys are so sure he will?
You also left out whether - or when - he will get the HM record, which he has also said he wants.
This kind of comment make me remember like it was yesterday when back in 2019 some people were saying he will never run under 3:30, and he will never beat Tim.
2019 is 5 years ago. Because he improved then doesn't mean he must always continue to do so. Every athlete has their ceiling.
This kind of comment make me remember like it was yesterday when back in 2019 some people were saying he will never run under 3:30, and he will never beat Tim.
Also I remember vividly when he ran 7:27 in 2020 and got beat by Kiplimo, some were saying that it his peak and he will never run under 7:27 lol
Same point again. An improvement early in his career does not mean improvements will continue much later.
Why are you unable to answer a simple question? Why is every race Jakob is in a tactical race when he's facing the fastest field the event has seen? Why do you think they don't want to run a fast race against someone who runs the 3k in 7:17?
They are tactical races because the fastest races over the distance are much faster than the times Ingebrigtsen has recorded. "Fast fields" don't always run their fastest races. Rio 2016 1500. Until Ingebrigtsen gets near 12:40 he shows no sign of being able to take the wr.
The "proper reference" for his HM was that he has described it as his "best distance" - and that he says gets progressively worse as the distances shorten. You obviously don't believe what he says - when it doesn't suit you.
I haven't backpedalled. I have said there were expectations he would be competitive and might even threaten the wr. You said nothing to dispute that before the race - your endless excuses came after. They never stop.
LOL. You just packpedalled again. You have said "most expected" him to run 57 minutes, and ever since then, you avoid your own statement like the plague. Do you remember where you stood yesterday? Was it "most expected" or "there were expectations"? Was it "57 minutes" or "would be competitive and threaten the wr"?
No need for me to disbelieve anything he said yet. The half marathon may indeed still be his best distance, but we will only be able to judge that at the end of his career.
If the "proper reference" is believing what he said, then here's what Jakob said just a couple days before the Copenhagen half-marathon (emphasis added):
"I think it's possible to break every record," he said. "All the different records are beatable. But you can't just wake up and jump in a race and break a world record. Everything needs to be aligned... if you need to make a couple of attempts, at least you need to make everything perfect."
"I think at my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
The "proper reference" for his HM was that he has described it as his "best distance" - and that he says gets progressively worse as the distances shorten. You obviously don't believe what he says - when it doesn't suit you.
I haven't backpedalled. I have said there were expectations he would be competitive and might even threaten the wr. You said nothing to dispute that before the race - your endless excuses came after. They never stop.
LOL. You just packpedalled again. You have said "most expected" him to run 57 minutes, and ever since then, you avoid your own statement like the plague. Do you remember where you stood yesterday? Was it "most expected" or "there were expectations"? Was it "57 minutes" or "would be competitive and threaten the wr"?
No need for me to disbelieve anything he said yet. The half marathon may indeed still be his best distance, but we will only be able to judge that at the end of his career.
If the "proper reference" is believing what he said, then here's what Jakob said just a couple days before the Copenhagen half-marathon (emphasis added):
"I think it's possible to break every record," he said. "All the different records are beatable. But you can't just wake up and jump in a race and break a world record. Everything needs to be aligned... if you need to make a couple of attempts, at least you need to make everything perfect."
"I think at my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
Excellent post. The drunk kiwi will ignore Jakob's own words though.
They are tactical races because the fastest races over the distance are much faster than the times Ingebrigtsen has recorded. "Fast fields" don't always run their fastest races. Rio 2016 1500. Until Ingebrigtsen gets near 12:40 he shows no sign of being able to take the wr.
Why are they tactical? Because they are not fast.
Because he isn't racing athletes who can't beat 13:20.
The "proper reference" for his HM was that he has described it as his "best distance" - and that he says gets progressively worse as the distances shorten. You obviously don't believe what he says - when it doesn't suit you.
I haven't backpedalled. I have said there were expectations he would be competitive and might even threaten the wr. You said nothing to dispute that before the race - your endless excuses came after. They never stop.
LOL. You just packpedalled again. You have said "most expected" him to run 57 minutes, and ever since then, you avoid your own statement like the plague. Do you remember where you stood yesterday? Was it "most expected" or "there were expectations"? Was it "57 minutes" or "would be competitive and threaten the wr"?
No need for me to disbelieve anything he said yet. The half marathon may indeed still be his best distance, but we will only be able to judge that at the end of his career.
If the "proper reference" is believing what he said, then here's what Jakob said just a couple days before the Copenhagen half-marathon (emphasis added):
"I think it's possible to break every record," he said. "All the different records are beatable. But you can't just wake up and jump in a race and break a world record. Everything needs to be aligned... if you need to make a couple of attempts, at least you need to make everything perfect."
"I think at my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
You keep ducking again and again his own claim that the longer the event the better he is, and hence the half-marathon is, he says, his "best distance". He says NOTHING about having to train specifically for different events from the 1500 to the HM. If that were required in order to confirm what he says he would have absolutely NO GROUNDS for saying or even believing he is better in longer events; it would be pure fantasy. So is he a fantasist - as you are? The only credible basis for his saying he is better at longer events is that he has either demonstrated it (he hasn't) or could demonstrate it, by racing any of those events and showing he is right. He can't. What he showed in the HM is that he is slower than Josh Kerr, who makes no claim to excelling at that or any distance event. He also showed, by his own statements you refer to above, that he was poorly prepared for the event.
I didn't claim that every poster expected him to run 57 - you are a noxious liar, as usual. Many posters hoped that he would be competitive in the event; he showed he isn't. You are one of those who said nothing to contradict those expectations before the race and are now endlessly trying to justify an inferior and indeed embarrassing performance, by saying 63 minutes is a good result for him. He wouldn't likely agree. His performance shows little more than he has no significant ability over the distance - his self-proclaimed "best event" - and that he greatly over-estimated himself.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
LOL. You just packpedalled again. You have said "most expected" him to run 57 minutes, and ever since then, you avoid your own statement like the plague. Do you remember where you stood yesterday? Was it "most expected" or "there were expectations"? Was it "57 minutes" or "would be competitive and threaten the wr"?
No need for me to disbelieve anything he said yet. The half marathon may indeed still be his best distance, but we will only be able to judge that at the end of his career.
If the "proper reference" is believing what he said, then here's what Jakob said just a couple days before the Copenhagen half-marathon (emphasis added):
"I think it's possible to break every record," he said. "All the different records are beatable. But you can't just wake up and jump in a race and break a world record. Everything needs to be aligned... if you need to make a couple of attempts, at least you need to make everything perfect."
"I think at my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
Excellent post. The drunk kiwi will ignore Jakob's own words though.
I go with his claim that the HM is his best event and that he gets progressively worse the shorter the event. But you choose to overlook that unfounded and even embarrassing claim. Jakob's "own words", too.
LOL. You just packpedalled again. You have said "most expected" him to run 57 minutes, and ever since then, you avoid your own statement like the plague. Do you remember where you stood yesterday? Was it "most expected" or "there were expectations"? Was it "57 minutes" or "would be competitive and threaten the wr"?
No need for me to disbelieve anything he said yet. The half marathon may indeed still be his best distance, but we will only be able to judge that at the end of his career.
If the "proper reference" is believing what he said, then here's what Jakob said just a couple days before the Copenhagen half-marathon (emphasis added):
"I think it's possible to break every record," he said. "All the different records are beatable. But you can't just wake up and jump in a race and break a world record. Everything needs to be aligned... if you need to make a couple of attempts, at least you need to make everything perfect."
"I think at my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
You keep ducking again and again his own claim that the longer the event the better he is, and hence the half-marathon is, he says, his "best distance". He says NOTHING about having to train specifically for different events from the 1500 to the HM. If that were required in order to confirm what he says he would have absolutely NO GROUNDS for saying or even believing he is better in longer events; it would be pure fantasy. So is he a fantasist - as you are? The only credible basis for his saying he is better at longer events is that he has either demonstrated it (he hasn't) or could demonstrate it, by racing any of those events and showing he is right. He can't. What he showed in the HM is that he is slower than Josh Kerr, who makes no claim to excelling at that or any distance event. He also showed, by his own statements you refer to above, that he was poorly prepared for the event.
I didn't claim that every poster expected him to run 57 - you are a noxious liar, as usual.
Nobody said you did. You said most expected him to run 57.
You are the only person who interprets his comment like him being currently better in the HM than in all other events.