And you will do anything to come to the conclusion that everyone at the top is doping.
Not everyone. But enough so as to not know who is doping and who isn't. But that's what the available evidence leads to - and, unlike rekrunner and the other doping deniers here - I follow the evidence, rather than try not to see it.
Not everyone. But enough so as to not know who is doping and who isn't. But that's what the available evidence leads to - and, unlike rekrunner and the other doping deniers here - I follow the evidence, rather than try not to see it.
Which evidence are you following? You never say.
You would have to emerge from your rabbit-hole to see it.
You would have to emerge from your rabbit-hole to see it.
This doesn't answer "which evidence" you are following.
Did you know that it was French scientists, more than a century ago, who discovered the red-blood cell producing effects of EPO by injecting the blood of anemic rabbits into other animals?
You would have to emerge from your rabbit-hole to see it.
This doesn't answer "which evidence" you are following.
Did you know that it was French scientists, more than a century ago, who discovered the red-blood cell producing effects of EPO by injecting the blood of anemic rabbits into other animals?
I can always count on you to introduce a point of complete irrelevance to any discussion.
But do you know that it's Kenyans who have appeared to have benefited most from the French discovery?
This doesn't answer "which evidence" you are following.
Did you know that it was French scientists, more than a century ago, who discovered the red-blood cell producing effects of EPO by injecting the blood of anemic rabbits into other animals?
I can always count on you to introduce a point of complete irrelevance to any discussion.
But do you know that it's Kenyans who have appeared to have benefited most from the French discovery?
Why else would I be in a rabbit hole?
I can always count on you avoid the question of "which evidence" you are following. Indeed I expected you would respond to the irrelevant tidbit, and then change the subject.
To respond to your new topic, I'm not sure Kenyans have benefited from EPO at all -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude. They are generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs most people have never heard of, or procedure violations like failure to get valid TUEs, and whereabouts failures.
I can always count on you avoid the question of "which evidence" you are following. Indeed I expected you would respond to the irrelevant tidbit, and then change the subject.
To respond to your new topic, I'm not sure Kenyans have benefited from EPO at all -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude. They are generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs most people have never heard of, or procedure violations like failure to get valid TUEs, and whereabouts failures.
Not sure who is in a rabbit hole, but banned EPO (or blood transfusion) users include:
Jeptoo, Sumgong, Chepchirchir, Chepkirui, Kiprop, Rutto, Wanjiru, Kiptum, Kipserem, Kipruto (not yet final), and Jebet and Kirwa, if we go by birth. Seems to be the most common dope at the very top; the ones who didn't get TUEs etc. are typically the 2nd tier.
I can always count on you avoid the question of "which evidence" you are following. Indeed I expected you would respond to the irrelevant tidbit, and then change the subject.
To respond to your new topic, I'm not sure Kenyans have benefited from EPO at all -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude. They are generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs most people have never heard of, or procedure violations like failure to get valid TUEs, and whereabouts failures.
Not sure who is in a rabbit hole, but banned EPO (or blood transfusion) users include:
Jeptoo, Sumgong, Chepchirchir, Chepkirui, Kiprop, Rutto, Wanjiru, Kiptum, Kipserem, Kipruto (not yet final), and Jebet and Kirwa, if we go by birth. Seems to be the most common dope at the very top; the ones who didn't get TUEs etc. are typically the 2nd tier.
Some of you seem to have problems with verbs.
I'm not sure "Jeptoo, Sumgong, Chepchirchir, Chepkirui, Kiprop, Rutto, Wanjiru, Kiptum, Kipserem, Kipruto (not yet final), and Jebet and Kirwa, if we go by birth" benefited from EPO -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude.
I can always count on you to introduce a point of complete irrelevance to any discussion.
But do you know that it's Kenyans who have appeared to have benefited most from the French discovery?
Why else would I be in a rabbit hole?
I can always count on you avoid the question of "which evidence" you are following. Indeed I expected you would respond to the irrelevant tidbit, and then change the subject.
To respond to your new topic, I'm not sure Kenyans have benefited from EPO at all -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude. They are generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs most people have never heard of, or procedure violations like failure to get valid TUEs, and whereabouts failures.
I can always count on you avoid the question of "which evidence" you are following. Indeed I expected you would respond to the irrelevant tidbit, and then change the subject.
To respond to your new topic, I'm not sure Kenyans have benefited from EPO at all -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude. They are generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs most people have never heard of, or procedure violations like failure to get valid TUEs, and whereabouts failures.
I'm not sure "Jeptoo, Sumgong, Chepchirchir, Chepkirui, Kiprop, Rutto, Wanjiru, Kiptum, Kipserem, Kipruto (not yet final), and Jebet and Kirwa, if we go by birth" benefited from EPO -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude.
IF you mean me with the verb problems, I'd response that I responded to your whole paragraph, adding to your "generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs" that the top tier uses EPO-doping more often than anything else, judging by the bans.
I did not correct your "I'm not sure...". So it would seem that you have comprehension problems.
As for your "I'm not sure... ", I am not sure why anyone would think a runner benefits from altitude-EPO but not from doping-EPO.
I'm not sure "Jeptoo, Sumgong, Chepchirchir, Chepkirui, Kiprop, Rutto, Wanjiru, Kiptum, Kipserem, Kipruto (not yet final), and Jebet and Kirwa, if we go by birth" benefited from EPO -- unless you mean naturally by virtue of their environment at altitude.
IF you mean me with the verb problems, I'd response that I responded to your whole paragraph, adding to your "generally being busted for a whole host of other drugs" that the top tier uses EPO-doping more often than anything else, judging by the bans.
I did not correct your "I'm not sure...". So it would seem that you have comprehension problems.
As for your "I'm not sure... ", I am not sure why anyone would think a runner benefits from altitude-EPO but not from doping-EPO.
Fair enough.
But now it seems you have the comprehension problem. I do not present altitude and synthetic EPO as either/or scenarios. All of these dozen Kenyans are born and raised and trained at altitude. Any EPO-triggered adaptations, both short term and long term, have already been realized without artificially adding synthetic EPO.
To isolate and observe the performance beneficial effects of EPO, without altitude induced EPO confounding the observations, isn't it better to look at the performances of sea-level athletes using EPO? After all, wouldn't EPO work on Kenyans/Ethiopians like everyone else?
I realise denial is your thing but you've now descended into the area of being brain-dead.
Avoidance. Deflection. Who would have predicted that?
Again, did EPO work on anyone else? Any non-Kenyans, at the top? Can you be specific? With evidence?
Recall, I looked at nearly 30 years of EPO-era performances, and was unable to find any obvious candidates in order to even suggest a trend.
Since you don't know who was using EPO and who was clean your comparisons are meaningless guesswork on your part.
Athletes meanwhile have continued to use EPO and antidoping have worked hard to try to crack down on it, along with other drugs. All of them know what you don't. You keep proving what Sage said about you.
Avoidance. Deflection. Who would have predicted that?
Again, did EPO work on anyone else? Any non-Kenyans, at the top? Can you be specific? With evidence?
Recall, I looked at nearly 30 years of EPO-era performances, and was unable to find any obvious candidates in order to even suggest a trend.
Since you don't know who was using EPO and who was clean your comparisons are meaningless guesswork on your part.
Athletes meanwhile have continued to use EPO and antidoping have worked hard to try to crack down on it, along with other drugs. All of them know what you don't. You keep proving what Sage said about you.
Since you don't know who was using EPO and who was clean your comparisons are meaningless guesswork on your part.
Athletes meanwhile have continued to use EPO and antidoping have worked hard to try to crack down on it, along with other drugs. All of them know what you don't. You keep proving what Sage said about you.
You keep proving what Renato said about you.
You mean the Renato who argues that EPO doesn't work on athletes trained at altitude - even though he has never tried it with his athletes and doesn't know any who have? Yet they continue to dope. He does have something in common with rekrunner, which is a confidence in maintaining a view of that which he has no experience of and no data that supports it, because doped athletes don't volunteer to be research subjects.