I guess with all the down votes some of these young kids are just closed minded or don't understand having a understanding of a topic for years.
By your own admission, you've had decades and decades to get used to the "newfangled" way of referring to interval workouts. Heck, Once A Runner was written in the 1970s and uses the word "interval" to refer to a section of hard running.
The reason you're getting downvotes is that us young people (I'm nearly 50) have only ever heard "interval" referring to "recovery" in one context: people like you pretending that they're not sure what we mean, when really you just want to give us all a little history lesson about the way the word used to be used. Were you truly confused about whether Bakken intends for people to do workouts of 3 x 10:00 of standing around, with 1:00-2:00 of hard running between the rests? Come on, spare us.
Not True - the Interval is the rest in between (half-time), as stated in 90% of Soccer/football matches. Terminology is culturally specific and sport specific - Americans don't "own" terms, and Interval described by other sources (Gerschler/Reindl or Igloi)) is just as valid.
As HRE stated - many, especially Americans, would recognize Intervals as being the Reps themselves (see "Once a runner"), even if that is not the case, but what else would you expect from a country who still uses the imperial system of measurement. Of course (as with rowing) one could call the repeats "pieces". Jack Daniels confuses it even more by distinguishing between Intervals and Repetitions which are both "repeats" of some particular intensity - the former with controlled recovery and the latter with more recovery or at least less controlled. Therefore I prefer to use the word recovery rather than interval, for the sake of simplicity, as it is less confusing.
As to recoveries - many programs are vague about it, and often don't distinguish between the various types - standing, walking, jogging, floats and based on distance, time, HR or lactate - which changes the dynamics of the session. Tegen had a complex mode of jog/rest/jog, which makes some physiological sense as well. Of course a complex training session incorporating a number of physiological parameters could incorporate all types of recovery as well.
I didn't think Daniels confused things even more because when I was in high school (I'm 32 now), there was a difference between intervals and reps. Intervals were at least 600m and up to 1200, with a short rest. They were the hard endurance ones because they were 5k - "half marathon" pace depending on the length. But reps were much faster, mile to 3000 pace, and ranged from 200 - 400 with equal or longer rest. In my mind, reps are never longer than a lap while intervals are usually at least two laps unless a person is doing their first ones ever.
You wouldn't happen to be from Section IV in NY would you?
I was at a session he gave at a running camp. I was a local coach and went to one his talks.
He and I talked afterwards and he told me that the training methods I used for my high school team were his methods "dumbed" down, so to speak, for high schoolers and to accommodate training 40-60 runners of different abilities.
Section V. There was a pretty big IV contingent as well though, made some great memories at that camp! I went a few consecutive summers between 2001-2004, so there's a pretty decent chance if you were there we've crossed paths. Small world! Never got tired of hearing Jack tell the story of Old Grey Boy and why he believes in luck.
What was this story?
TY for all posters who broke it down simply re: single/double thresholds.
(1 minute rest for everything) 800m repeats no faster than 10k pace 1600m repeats no faster than HM pace 3-7 mile tempos no faster than MP
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Marius Bakken (father to the norwegian training model) was the main guest, I’ll try to give a short summary of the first part of the episode.
You should run intervals:
-> it is easier to measure lactate
-> you can run a lot faster on the same load on the body (He isnt sure about how or why the difference is so vast, but he suspects that the human body has a ”safety” or ”break”mechanism that is turned off when the body is given short breaks between intervals)
-> the total load on the body will be lower if your training is interval based.
-> the intervals shouldnt last for longer than 30 minutes. (double threshhold with 2 x 30 minutes has a lower load on the body than a single session of 45 minutes)
The optimal training week (for elite runners focusing on 1500 - 5000m)
Monday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/afternoon
Tuesday: 5 x 6 minutes (morning) and 25 x 60 seconds (afternoon)
Wednesday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/ afternoon
thursday: (5x6 minutes or 3 x 10 min) in the morning and 10 x 3 minutes for the afternoon.
friday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/afternoon
saturday: hills (morning)/easy afternoon
(you cannot only do threshhold training, you need intensity training and hills gives you the right kind of training without putting too much strain on the body)
Sunday - long run, slightly over an hour (it becomes less important as you get better)
*you get two easy days after the hill workout, which is important so the muscles can recover properly (restore the right muscle tonus) * with double threshhold training you should always run faster in the afternoon (the way human muscles work as well as the body temperature makes it easier to run fast in the afternoon)
Why double threshhold?
The hits/strains on your muscles is the limiting factor.
If you run a couple of seconds per kilometer too fast, the strain on the muscles will be too great over time.
you need to measure lactate, because the pace that feels natural is often too fast.
And the muscles wont be able to handle that load over time.
The same thing happens if you try to run threshhold every day, your muscles wont be able to recover. Your performance will start to deteriorate within weeks. You need an easy day after your threshhold day to lower your ”muscle tonus”. He also tried tripple threshhold days followed by an easy day, but it didnt work.
Marius training now (as an older doctor)
A lot of short intervals
He trains 3-4 times a week
close too 100% at threshhold or faster
20-30 minutes per session (not longer)
You need to maintain a ”muscular surprlus”, otherwise you’ll get injured. Dont push the last interval, you need to keep something in the ”bank”
There's something fishy about the Norwegian method. The schedule listed above might be great for a month or so but eventually you have to do some VO2 and mile pace work if you are trying to PR at 1500/3000/5000.
There's something fishy about the Norwegian method. The schedule listed above might be great for a month or so but eventually you have to do some VO2 and mile pace work if you are trying to PR at 1500/3000/5000.
I wouldn't say "fishy". But yeah, the basic Norwegian model doesn't include specifics on how to prepare for those events.
We've yet to hear any details about how the Ingebrigtsen's adapt the model before and throughout the racing season. I suspect we'll only hear about it when Jakob retires/becomes a coach/writes a book.
There's something fishy about the Norwegian method. The schedule listed above might be great for a month or so but eventually you have to do some VO2 and mile pace work if you are trying to PR at 1500/3000/5000.
Have you tried running 2x8-10x30"-40" fast uphill? It's not all threshold.
I think they run 300m repeats at mile pace on the track closer to competition.
nothing fishy. I think the method is more geared towards people in base to mid season, and Norwegian training probably changes significantly when preparing for a peak race.
as an 800m runner, I’m planning on doing something like this for my off season next year in the winter before track, but stick with my coach’s more traditional training while in competitive season.
Marius Bakken (father to the norwegian training model) was the main guest, I’ll try to give a short summary of the first part of the episode.
You should run intervals:
-> it is easier to measure lactate
-> you can run a lot faster on the same load on the body (He isnt sure about how or why the difference is so vast, but he suspects that the human body has a ”safety” or ”break”mechanism that is turned off when the body is given short breaks between intervals)
-> the total load on the body will be lower if your training is interval based.
-> the intervals shouldnt last for longer than 30 minutes. (double threshhold with 2 x 30 minutes has a lower load on the body than a single session of 45 minutes)
The optimal training week (for elite runners focusing on 1500 - 5000m)
Monday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/afternoon
Tuesday: 5 x 6 minutes (morning) and 25 x 60 seconds (afternoon)
Wednesday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/ afternoon
thursday: (5x6 minutes or 3 x 10 min) in the morning and 10 x 3 minutes for the afternoon.
friday: 2 x 10-12 km, morning/afternoon
saturday: hills (morning)/easy afternoon
(you cannot only do threshhold training, you need intensity training and hills gives you the right kind of training without putting too much strain on the body)
Sunday - long run, slightly over an hour (it becomes less important as you get better)
*you get two easy days after the hill workout, which is important so the muscles can recover properly (restore the right muscle tonus) * with double threshhold training you should always run faster in the afternoon (the way human muscles work as well as the body temperature makes it easier to run fast in the afternoon)
Why double threshhold?
The hits/strains on your muscles is the limiting factor.
If you run a couple of seconds per kilometer too fast, the strain on the muscles will be too great over time.
you need to measure lactate, because the pace that feels natural is often too fast.
And the muscles wont be able to handle that load over time.
The same thing happens if you try to run threshhold every day, your muscles wont be able to recover. Your performance will start to deteriorate within weeks. You need an easy day after your threshhold day to lower your ”muscle tonus”. He also tried tripple threshhold days followed by an easy day, but it didnt work.
Marius training now (as an older doctor)
A lot of short intervals
He trains 3-4 times a week
close too 100% at threshhold or faster
20-30 minutes per session (not longer)
You need to maintain a ”muscular surprlus”, otherwise you’ll get injured. Dont push the last interval, you need to keep something in the ”bank”
There's something fishy about the Norwegian method. The schedule listed above might be great for a month or so but eventually you have to do some VO2 and mile pace work if you are trying to PR at 1500/3000/5000.
When Bakken was at his peak I once saw him doing 7x1000 in around 2,35 with 3 minute rest. This was in the summer.