for those of you who say trans women shouldn't...

if life is unfair why err in the side of benefitting an astronomical minority at the expense of all other female competitors?

Life is unfair. I identify as an Olympic champion. I should be allowed to dope hard AF to get there.

I agree. Let's combine all categories into one and let everyone race each other. Women will never win again but life is unfair and everyone has natural advantages and disadvantages so

OP is clearly a troll.

0/10.

Really ignorant comparison. In, say, the 10,000m, someone who had the same advantage over the world record holder that the world record holder has over the women's world record holder would run 23:38. That would break Daniel Komen's 3,000m record enroute by 15 seconds, then do it again twice more and then some. Not in the same world as seven-footers in the NBA, or Michael Phelps. (I remember having this exact same argument with ignorant people back when they would say "unfair advantage, what about Lance Armstrong", too.)

Trans women do lose some advantage. Lia Thomas swam about 6% slower in her main event, the 500y, after three years on hormones than she did before, comparing her pre-transition PR to her post-transition PR at the NCAA championships. However, the percentage difference between the men's and women's records in the 400m (closest of the official world record distances) is about 9%. It's broadly similar in running and cycling, which is why trans women, a very small percentage of the population, keep casually ending up near the top of these sports when they do compete against women. It would be absurd in basketball, if harder to measure.

I want trans women to have the benefits of athletic competition and all the happiness and fulfillment that comes from being in the world as themselves, but dismissively saying "trans women are women, trans women must be allowed to compete with [cis] women" ignores reality.

Doubtful. There's tens of millions of people who share his delusion. They never matured and they think anything that makes them feel bad must be wrong. Even if it's a fact.

You'd think so, but I've seen people argue this sincerely. They usually don't turn up here though.

this is misleading. Tatyana competed in track against able bodied runner but she DID NOT SCORE. and you know what? She was FINE WITH THAT.

If biological gender doesn't make a difference in athletics then why separate men and women? I don't think there's a problem with a genetic woman (trans man) competing with men, because they don't have an advantage. But the going the other direction they have an advantage. The answer to this is protect women's sport or get rid of the divisions all together. You'll be hard-pressed to find examples of state champion girls who would be able to compete at the state championship level for men, but a slightly above average guy would be one of the top girl competitors. For example in the 1600 4:40's makes you a top girl, a 4:40's guy is still pretty decent but nothing to write home about. So the genetic advantage makes you go from a little above average to top tier.

I know OP is prob trolling but the easiest debunk for this argument when they start bringing up race or height as the keys to performance: who's faster, the fastest black woman or the fastest black man? Who's better at basketball, a 6ft4 NBA player or a 6ft4 WNBA player? If Michael Phelps was the same height, weight and limb length but was born female would he have been the same speed or slower?

Your handle says it all. Life is unfair. Trans women shouldn't compete with women. Deal with it. Life isn't fair. Boo Hoo

So assigned female at birth. That simple. Caster should take up Cycling..

Hobby Jogger's analogy is also inapt because it has nothing to to with sex, which is the issue here.

HJ's analogy would be fitting if Tatyana McFadden were a HS boy with a physical disability who sued his school district claiming it was his "right" to race against able-bodied girls on the grounds that his disability puts him at an unfair disadvantage in competition against other boys.

AFAIK, no boy or man in the US with a physical disability or other health condition that puts him at a disavantage competing against others of his sex has sued for the "right" to compete against females on the grounds that girls' and women's sports must be "inclusive" of boys and men with physical disabilities. Most guys with physical disabilities would find the very idea both preposterous and offensive.

Amongst athletes with male DNA, functioning testes, male androgen receptors in good working order who've been through male puberties of infancy and adolescence, only two groups have regularly made a point of insisting it's their "right" to compete in women's and girls' sports because they are, or believe they are, at a disadvantage competing against others of their sex:

1) normally-developed males who claim to have an special gender identity

2) XY athletes with a small handul of DSDs that only affect male sex development like the one Caster Semenya has.

Ok, Ill bite. The end goal is biological men dont compete with women

Thats the end goal here, theres no other nefarious plot, it's pretty straightforward