This weekend I have my final 20-22 mile workout before my next marathon. The plan I'm following has me running a bit slower than goal pace for 10 miles then doing a fartlek workout in the middle with 8x 3 minute intervals at 10k pace. I've done this run before and it is a killer, but I'm wondering if I should switch it to something more geared towards my goal pace.
Goal = 2:55 ish
Just ran a 17:00 5k a few weeks ago, and my half PR is 1:19:50.
Should I do a 20 mile run with a 16 mile uptempo ish run close to marathon pace? I just want to go feeling confident in my ability.
Should I do a 20 mile run with a 16 mile uptempo ish run close to marathon pace? I just want to go feeling confident in my ability.
It can be a great workout, just don't run the 16 @ MP too fast or you risk leaving your race on the streets during this workout (I have twice). Also consider either slowing it down or reducing the number of miles at MP if it's starting to feel a bit too aggressive.
It can be a great workout, just don't run the 16 @ MP too fast or you risk leaving your race on the streets during this workout (I have twice). Also consider either slowing it down or reducing the number of miles at MP if it's starting to feel a bit too aggressive.
That's exactly what I don't want to do, I've left my race in training once before because I felt too bada$$ and paid for it.
Might just do 8 steady, 10 mile MP then cool it down
Should I do a 20 mile run with a 16 mile uptempo ish run close to marathon pace? I just want to go feeling confident in my ability.
It can be a great workout, just don't run the 16 @ MP too fast or you risk leaving your race on the streets during this workout (I have twice). Also consider either slowing it down or reducing the number of miles at MP if it's starting to feel a bit too aggressive.
I prefer the other options. How far out are you from race day? I'm guessing 3 weeks, but I don't know. 16 MP miles is a good bit to recover from. At 3 weeks out, I often see 20-22 with 10-12 at MP or something like the fartlek workout you mention. I've also done 22-24 easy 3 weeks out, with 16-17 w/8-9 at MP 2 weeks out. For me, knowing that I feel smooth and am leaving a lot on the table in that later run is as good for confidence and for feeling pace as running another 5-7 MP miles would be, without the risk of requiring too much recovery.
And I hope you're confident. Your race times suggest that you're in great shape for 2:55 if your training has been going pretty well.
I prefer the other options. How far out are you from race day? I'm guessing 3 weeks, but I don't know. 16 MP miles is a good bit to recover from. At 3 weeks out, I often see 20-22 with 10-12 at MP or something like the fartlek workout you mention. I've also done 22-24 easy 3 weeks out, with 16-17 w/8-9 at MP 2 weeks out. For me, knowing that I feel smooth and am leaving a lot on the table in that later run is as good for confidence and for feeling pace as running another 5-7 MP miles would be, without the risk of requiring too much recovery.
And I hope you're confident. Your race times suggest that you're in great shape for 2:55 if your training has been going pretty well.
Race day is 4 weeks from Saturday, so I've got some time. I could push this workout to next week and just do an easy 18 this weekend. But I figured I'd do it this way just in case. So next week I can have a final long run at a chill pace (especially in case it gets crazy hot).
Training has been pretty good. A couple nags here and there and an IT band flare up, but I've been tackling it like crazy.
5x2 miles with first mile at goal marathon pace and second mile at half marathon pace with 1/4 time recovery in between.
Or 3x4 miles at goal marathon pace
Or a fast finish long run that is a gradual progression where the last 8 miles are at goal pace (maybe a tad faster on the last 2).
Is the 5x2 mi workout a good predictor? Just decided to average it out and it would be 11 miles like three seconds above goal marathon pace (I know. I know. Just three seconds).
I've been so accustomed to doing 15 MP around the same time as OP.
Race day is 4 weeks from Saturday, so I've got some time. I could push this workout to next week and just do an easy 18 this weekend. But I figured I'd do it this way just in case. So next week I can have a final long run at a chill pace (especially in case it gets crazy hot).
Training has been pretty good. A couple nags here and there and an IT band flare up, but I've been tackling it like crazy.
Thanks for your words!
With 4 weeks, I think you have some leeway and plenty of time to recover. How much volume have you done at MP in a single workout so far? I would be looking to build on that and bump that up a little bit, maximum of 15-16 or 2 hours, though. For a lower-volume alternative, I might do 2x10k at MP with a short recovery in between, maybe a mile (or max of two).
With 4 weeks, I think you have some leeway and plenty of time to recover. How much volume have you done at MP in a single workout so far? I would be looking to build on that and bump that up a little bit, maximum of 15-16 or 2 hours, though. For a lower-volume alternative, I might do 2x10k at MP with a short recovery in between, maybe a mile (or max of two).
Most volume at MPN so far would be a 13 mile run with a 9 mile uptempo run where I ended the last couple miles at HM effort. 2 up and two down to start. Which was actually 2 days before my 5k PR. Maybe I'll just bump up that workout to 14 miles at race effort and split them 7 and 7 with a mile rest in the middle.
This weekend I have my final 20-22 mile workout before my next marathon. The plan I'm following has me running a bit slower than goal pace for 10 miles then doing a fartlek workout in the middle with 8x 3 minute intervals at 10k pace. I've done this run before and it is a killer, but I'm wondering if I should switch it to something more geared towards my goal pace.
Goal = 2:55 ish
Just ran a 17:00 5k a few weeks ago, and my half PR is 1:19:50.
Should I do a 20 mile run with a 16 mile uptempo ish run close to marathon pace? I just want to go feeling confident in my ability.
What's your thoughts? TYIA!
I like that workout. I do a similar Squires type workout where I have some easy miles and then do 8-12 x 2:00 @ 10k pace to start each mile (easy running the rest of the mile) say from mile 6 to mile 14-18. 2-4 mile cool down to finish. But I do this kind of a session much earlier in a marathon build. What you outlined sounds pretty tough since you're running close to MP for a good amount of time before getting into a tough 8x3:00.
You said you're 4 weeks out. I do my longest run 5 weeks out and then am usually 20-22 w./ a good amount of time spent @ GMP 3 & 4 weeks out. 2 weeks out is 17-18 for me. Depending on how the build has gone & what I feel like I need I might do 2 x 4-5 miles @ GMP in there. If I'm feeling a bit cooked I'll just do 17-18 easy. I do a mid-week progression 1.5 weeks out. Easy 12-14 1 week out. Light workout race week.
Idk why the person got a lot of down votes for saying 20 w./ 16 @ GMP. It might be aggressive for some but that's the exact workout I'd think about doing 4 weeks out. I'll do 20-21 w./ 25k @ GMP. Adapt it to your training. Maybe it's more like 10-14 @ GMP. Maybe you break it up into 5k reps or 4 mile reps. Stuff like alternating 1 mile or 2 mile reps @ GMP & @ an easy pace would also work similarly & be a little easier to do. I'd lean more towards specificity at this point versus a workout that could have a high injury risk or have you leaving your race in training. You would have to be very good about not running marathon pace in those first 10 & then make sure that the 3:00 reps are right at 10k effort no matter how good you feel.
This is probably one of the best marathon indicators
Absolutely not! Save that kind of effort for race day!
You do this workout and then you either fall into your 3 week taper or 10 day taper.. either way you will be perfectly recovered. You could shorten the workout and make it anywhere from 12-16 Miles.
This weekend I have my final 20-22 mile workout before my next marathon. The plan I'm following has me running a bit slower than goal pace for 10 miles then doing a fartlek workout in the middle with 8x 3 minute intervals at 10k pace. I've done this run before and it is a killer, but I'm wondering if I should switch it to something more geared towards my goal pace.
Goal = 2:55 ish
Just ran a 17:00 5k a few weeks ago, and my half PR is 1:19:50.
Should I do a 20 mile run with a 16 mile uptempo ish run close to marathon pace? I just want to go feeling confident in my ability.
What's your thoughts? TYIA!
That kinda sounds like a Long Run workout right off of one of our Higher Running Training Plans!
How long until the race and what has your average weekly mileage been?
Considering some of this....you should still probably follow the plan.
Running "right at MP" is overrated imo. Sure, you should get used to race pace (mainly for pacing practice), but if you can do surges at 10km pace during the second half of a 20-miler (on tired legs without a taper) that should build your confidence for marathon stamina + speed. It's all about trying to keep the legs turning over fast in that last 10km.
People tend over-do it with the 16-18 mile "Simulators" right at MP and then they aren't even able to run that pace for 26.2 when the time comes.
Better to chalk up a lot of specific workout miles a bit slower than MP (Aerobic Threshold)...so like 7:00-7:15/mile pace for you. And then a lot of miles just faster than MP (lactate threshold) so like 6:25-6:10 per mile for you. Then 10km pace surges and other "Vo2max" stuff like 5km pace at sub 6:00 pace.
I ran my debut marathon of 2:22 at the age of 21 off of basically 10km training/racing and Longer steady run workouts of mixed speeds (6:20 to 5:40 pace) without actually touching Marathon pace (5:25).