take two classes of people at same weight..... its like the newbies at the gym who start taking steriods to just bench 185 never to progress much further, vs the guy with 10 years training doing 315, going for 365lb...
It's not plated and so not what you're asking, but based on your preferences I'll bet you'd like the Topo Cyclone 2. It's got some pop to it. Great shoe, IMO.
The Pacers arrived today and I took them to the track this afternoon. As I noted above, I felt my 5k time was most due for a pr challenge. Not by any means suggesting it was the shoes. I have been training a good deal the last several months, increasing volume, etc. Was really pleased to take my time down over 2 minutes to 21:15. Also pr’d my mile and 2 mile times so think I can bring both of those down a good chunk too and my 10k.
The shoes felt good, but I’m going to be returning them for a few reasons. First, they came to me with some (minor but definitely apparent) sole wear like they’d been worn before maybe on a treadmill or something and then returned. Also, after one run on the track there was a surprising amount of wear on one heel. Kind of shredded in fact after just this one run (and I didn’t put them on until I got to the track)! Also, the color was really poorly represented on the site and the toe side is really much more of a peachy orange than red. I don’t mind a bright shoe, but my wife thought they were ones she’d ordered. Most importantly, I don’t see going all out for a race beyond 5k in them. Maybe because of their low stack and flat-like ride, they don’t feel remarkably different from my Topos or Xeros and they are definitely not durable enough to be a trainer, especially wear I live and mainly run - road to light trails, gravel intermittently, etc. I think I’ll be happier waiting for a deal on a Vaporfly 2 and saving them for races and occasional harder days.
a supershoe is super because of the Combination of three things: a High stack of superfoam, rocker + toespring, and a rigid plate with a spoon shape. without these things it is not going to give you any more performance benefit than a ultra light flat would (wave universe or run fast pro. suck up to reality. a low shoe with no rocker wont be super
Wrong, rigid plate is most likely minimally a factor in performance benefit vs ultra light flat.
Healey LA, Hoogkamer W. Longitudinal bending stiffness does not affect running economy in Nike Vaporfly shoes. Journal of Sport and Health Science. 2022 May 1;11(3):285-292).
a supershoe is super because of the Combination of three things: a High stack of superfoam, rocker + toespring, and a rigid plate with a spoon shape. without these things it is not going to give you any more performance benefit than a ultra light flat would (wave universe or run fast pro. suck up to reality. a low shoe with no rocker wont be super
Wrong, rigid plate is most likely minimally a factor in performance benefit vs ultra light flat.
Healey LA, Hoogkamer W. Longitudinal bending stiffness does not affect running economy in Nike Vaporfly shoes. Journal of Sport and Health Science. 2022 May 1;11(3):285-292).
That being said, the plates are really needed to stabilize these shoes due to the massive amount of stack and compliance of the foams.
a supershoe is super because of the Combination of three things: a High stack of superfoam, rocker + toespring, and a rigid plate with a spoon shape. without these things it is not going to give you any more performance benefit than a ultra light flat would (wave universe or run fast pro. suck up to reality. a low shoe with no rocker wont be super
Wrong, rigid plate is most likely minimally a factor in performance benefit vs ultra light flat.
Healey LA, Hoogkamer W. Longitudinal bending stiffness does not affect running economy in Nike Vaporfly shoes. Journal of Sport and Health Science. 2022 May 1;11(3):285-292).
Wrong. You get that test results singling out longitudinal stiffness, but that doesn't show plates don't work. A plate that has an extremely curved spoon shape reduces the work done at the toe joint while keeping the moment at the ankle joint similar to a plateless shoe and lower than a flat-plated shoe. Guess what? A plateless midsole can't perform those tasks without stiffness provided by a spoon-shaped plate. Nike has a patent on the spoon plate, and other shoes that are efficient have imitated that shape without infringing on the patent by using things like rods. Those with flatter plates to avoid patent infringement, but similar foam aren't as efficient in tests.
"Creating footwear for performance running." Footwear Science, 11(sup1), pp. S134–S135