This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
5) Do you have his Whoop data to validate against the Strava data? You may look very, very foolish if/when a report comes out showing all of your stats to be bad. Or, is Whoop now a snake-oil product too?
Whoop does not appear to be an independent third party, so I have a difficult time trusting any analysis done by the company.
What would be an independent third party in the running world that you would trust their analysis?
First time poster here. UK based. No affiliation with any parties discussed here.
I’ve been following this thread for a while, and as much as you may like or dislike WG and what he’s doing there are some really basic points that are being lost by emotional responses/semantics/general ill feeling between believers and non-believers.
As much as WC has been accused of pseudo science or bad data management, kudos to him for staying on the thread to keep hammering home his point. And kudos to Recruiter57 for his unwavering support.
That said, if you were to do something this monumental, and make this much of a commitment to pre-event training, time, energy, money, recovery etc then wouldn’t you do everything in your power to have as close to 100% legitimacy as is possible? These are seasoned athletes, they know how it works.
With that in mind-
If you were fully aware that your equipment was prone to tech fails like they have been in the last 4 years (according to WC) why wouldn’t you take strident steps to make sure that you used all technology at your disposal to provide proof that you had accomplished what is likely to be one of WG’s longest ever runs. I can understand why, if someone accused you of cheating, you would double down on your methods (and in reality this echo chamber will have no bearing on money raised or post event career for WG, so why change anything half way through the event?) but there should have been systems in place before the first step. Especially if they are going for ‘records’.
Not wearing a tracker because of weight etc. is a moot point. We all know how light and inconspicuous they are. Minimal gains like this aren’t going to have much of a bearing on long mileage days.
Presumably WG has his phone with him when running (for safety reasons, or for social media purposes). If we are really to believe that a satellite tracker isn’t a viable option then why doesn’t he use the LiveTrack feature available on Garmin, or whatever the alternative is for Coros. I did a 7 day run last year and every morning sent a link to family which had route details and tracking. It’s less reliable than satellite tracking and relies on mobile phone signal and Bluetooth, but it certainly would come in and out of range enough to give a decent picture of route and location.
It really all boils down to tracker or lack thereof. Forget the NuCalm. Forget the sponsorship. Forget WG’s apparent lack of humility. This is all noise and mud-slinging. The burden of proof is on WG and his team. A lot of what WC has pointed to supports the theory that they are not legitimate in this pursuit. A lot of what WG and his team are NOT doing also supports the theory. You don’t just get to say that you’ve done something this big when so much money and reputation are at stake.
I think we can all agree that this will never be resolved and he will finish in NY in a couple of days, and to his sponsors and donors he will have achieved an incredible feat. I get why people like WC would be aggrieved by this.
For myself, and I presume lots of people on here, the bottom line is that WC has no irrefutable proof that he had ran the Trans Con.
He started out strong from the Pacific coast with the goal to run 3,000 miles in 45 days. But things took a bad turn when suspicions arose over his rate of progress
You do seem to have a very intimate knowledge of WG's schedule Recruiter, one could almost believe you had a vested interest in all this? (You are certainly his staunchest defender - they really should put you on the payroll, you're doing a better job than his potty mouthed crew). Each day where the crew published footage of him running/walking for long spells in company WG's stats showed shorted distance, higher heart rate and slower paces. There has been considerably worse weather than the weather when WC was out there and it hasn't had the same impact.
I suspect the crew will just parade a long list of statements from insta fans who all, made an appointment to run with WG. and that Coros watch data will no doubt remain hidden forever because if they suddenly start claiming that the Coros/Strava heart rate data is all wrong then I suspect Coros might have something to say about it, particularly if they wheel out some higher heart rate data from a device provided by their sponsors.
Sadly they have now made entirely sure that whether he did or he didn't do it, there will always be doubts - and not just over the heartrate data. All of this could easily have been avoided by providing clear tracking data ON the runner, addressing the HR questions early on and by not suddenly changing the route.
I'm not even going to bother about the missing 3 miles from day 15/16 because I can actually forgive him forgetting to start his watch - but he should have been wearing 2!! A lifestyle tracker doesn't really cut it.
I sincerely hope WG's crew appreciate your efforts here!!
I'm not sure where comment you're referring to...I've commented on a couple :)
Not part of the crew in any way. Just a runner who appreciates a big effort by another runner. I would certainly put a TC attempt as a big effort.
You are absolutely correct. This thread has made it abundantly clear that there will be doubters no matter what validation may be produced. And, I agree that a tracker could have minimize the fervor.
I truly don't care if they ever know that I wrote a single line of support or raised certain questions. I have stayed on this to defend against the teardown of this effort based on analysis from someone completely biased. And, by repeating numbers over and over again, enough have decided it must be fake. Are there things that could have been done differently? Of course. But, they chose their approach and appear to be fine with it.
Yes but as I said, it's not a linear scale. If you have a look at the link it explains it better if you're interested.
I have used whoop in the past and bigger training days (3/4+ hours would always be in the 20+ range, as for "normal" people, that is A LOT of training)
Many have given up even reading these pages because they either have gotten blasted for their opinion or gave up trying to show reason how this could be valid.
You claimed that you didn't try and pass of opinions as facts. But here you go again, passing exactly the same opinion about why support for Goodge has dried up, and addressing it in the form of a fact.
You have no idea why support for Goodge dried up. It could quite easily be because of all the red flags surrounding this run, his believers just stopped believing after they saw the mounting evidence.
And you're claim that Will G is biased is bullsh*it. We all started out as neutral, but became sceptics because of the evidence that made this run look dodgy. And these red flags did start before the run, with audacious claims that seem well beyond the capabilities of someone with a mediocre running pedigree.
Just as you don't why they stopped commenting either. It could be because of what you said, or it could be because of what I said.
I will attempt to remember to put IMO in front of my statements. Or, you could simply use this as my blanket statement that every comment I've made thus far and every comment I will make are In My Opinion. Cool?
You mean Will C, not G, is biased (that I claimed). Is that your opinion, or did you have WC have a conversation and he said "I don't have a opinion one way or another, but I'm going to email their crew and call them a fraud before they ever begin just for kicks"? I do believe from your early posts on here (or FB-I don't recall) that you started out neutral based on your comments. And, it is your prerogative to make up your own decision based on what has/hasn't been proven.
It.Is.A.Marketing line. Big bold statements bring in sponsors. It is really that simple.
Tomorrow I could go out and say that I'm attempting to become the fastest left-handed, brown haired recruiter and I am going to run 13.75348960394853025 miles.
What stupid point are you trying to make now? Of course it's a marketing line. I doubt anybody will disagree with that.
The point here is that PK is blaming WC for raising the issue of the British record when it was obviously Goodge and Balanger who did so. This is highly disingenous.
It's written on their van, they've boasted about it online. It is 100% obvious to anybody capable of rational thought that it is Goodge and Balanger to blame for raising the issue of the UK record.
Ouch! Make me cry by calling my point stupid...
Glad we at least agree this is a marketing line.
Since it isn't a real record, what such a big fuss?
Only newbs and Will Cockerell use Strava graphs to accuse someone of cheating. Strava graphs apply smoothing algorithms to prettify the lines and which removes lots of data. It is beyond dumb to use Strava graphs for details like this because it is intentionally garbled to make it look pretty. This is why experienced analyzers, like me, download the data and graph it ourselves.
If you check my original post comparing Whoops vs Strava for 22nd May, you'll see I said:
"I'm not tech savy or smart enough to download the Strava file to cross examine this, is someone else able to compare these times?"
Sounds like you are, so why don't you have a look and tell us what "he" was up to between 10:32-11:35 and 13:55-16:39? :)
Goodge was taking massive turd dumps at the side of the road for Will Cockerell to find to satisfy his demands that he knows everytime Goodge takes a break.
Why am I the only one in this entire thread that has actually been downloading the data and properly analyzing it instead of the Cockerell shills using the misleading Strava and Whoop graphs?
What would be an independent third party in the running world that you would trust their analysis?
Laz Lake or Asher Delmott.
I've got shocking news for you. The real Pete Kostelnick has posted in this very thread that he is close buddies with Asher Delmott and it was actually Pete that sent Asher to follow Rob Young. And now you are going to make a conspiracy theory about how Asher Delmott is also in on the "cheating".
Well I don't think he'll be backing up his stats with the whoop - that thinks he ran 74 miles on Monday - Vs the "reality" of 60 on Strava - I guess that's just counting those teeny tiny steps though.....
No, it doesn't look like it will match up to Strava unless there is advanced options to only look at movement greater than 3mph (or something). But, it could still be a valid way to see movement and HR analysis 24/7...I repeat, could be
Fair enough. I only wish they would have gotten out there. I believe way early in this thread Laz said he didn't care enough about this (or someone was making a joke that he didn't care about it, I don't recall).
If you check my original post comparing Whoops vs Strava for 22nd May, you'll see I said:
"I'm not tech savy or smart enough to download the Strava file to cross examine this, is someone else able to compare these times?"
Sounds like you are, so why don't you have a look and tell us what "he" was up to between 10:32-11:35 and 13:55-16:39? :)
Goodge was taking massive turd dumps at the side of the road for Will Cockerell to find to satisfy his demands that he knows everytime Goodge takes a break.
Why am I the only one in this entire thread that has actually been downloading the data and properly analyzing it instead of the Cockerell shills using the misleading Strava and Whoop graphs?
What do you use to analyse the files then big man?
I've got shocking news for you. The real Pete Kostelnick has posted in this very thread that he is close buddies with Asher Delmott and it was actually Pete that sent Asher to follow Rob Young. And now you are going to make a conspiracy theory about how Asher Delmott is also in on the "cheating".
Are you really this dumb or are you pretending to misunderstand?
Goodge and Whoop have just posted the following on Istagram:
"... he is set to become the fastest Englishman to cross America"
This is despite the fact thatbthe Lees time is about to pass in a few hours and it's now clear that Goodge is not going to breakbthe record. So they are still claiming the record even though they know they are outside the time. This is getting even worse.
And once again this proves how absurd Pete Kostelnick is being for blaming Will C for publicising the English record, when it's all down to Goodge and Balanger.
First time poster here. UK based. No affiliation with any parties discussed here.
I’ve been following this thread for a while, and as much as you may like or dislike WG and what he’s doing there are some really basic points that are being lost by emotional responses/semantics/general ill feeling between believers and non-believers.
As much as WC has been accused of pseudo science or bad data management, kudos to him for staying on the thread to keep hammering home his point. And kudos to Recruiter57 for his unwavering support.
That said, if you were to do something this monumental, and make this much of a commitment to pre-event training, time, energy, money, recovery etc then wouldn’t you do everything in your power to have as close to 100% legitimacy as is possible? These are seasoned athletes, they know how it works.
With that in mind-
If you were fully aware that your equipment was prone to tech fails like they have been in the last 4 years (according to WC) why wouldn’t you take strident steps to make sure that you used all technology at your disposal to provide proof that you had accomplished what is likely to be one of WG’s longest ever runs. I can understand why, if someone accused you of cheating, you would double down on your methods (and in reality this echo chamber will have no bearing on money raised or post event career for WG, so why change anything half way through the event?) but there should have been systems in place before the first step. Especially if they are going for ‘records’.
Not wearing a tracker because of weight etc. is a moot point. We all know how light and inconspicuous they are. Minimal gains like this aren’t going to have much of a bearing on long mileage days.
Presumably WG has his phone with him when running (for safety reasons, or for social media purposes). If we are really to believe that a satellite tracker isn’t a viable option then why doesn’t he use the LiveTrack feature available on Garmin, or whatever the alternative is for Coros. I did a 7 day run last year and every morning sent a link to family which had route details and tracking. It’s less reliable than satellite tracking and relies on mobile phone signal and Bluetooth, but it certainly would come in and out of range enough to give a decent picture of route and location.
It really all boils down to tracker or lack thereof. Forget the NuCalm. Forget the sponsorship. Forget WG’s apparent lack of humility. This is all noise and mud-slinging. The burden of proof is on WG and his team. A lot of what WC has pointed to supports the theory that they are not legitimate in this pursuit. A lot of what WG and his team are NOT doing also supports the theory. You don’t just get to say that you’ve done something this big when so much money and reputation are at stake.
I think we can all agree that this will never be resolved and he will finish in NY in a couple of days, and to his sponsors and donors he will have achieved an incredible feat. I get why people like WC would be aggrieved by this.
For myself, and I presume lots of people on here, the bottom line is that WC has no irrefutable proof that he had ran the Trans Con.
Great poast for a first poast. Obv the environment is rubbing off on you.
If you check my original post comparing Whoops vs Strava for 22nd May, you'll see I said:
"I'm not tech savy or smart enough to download the Strava file to cross examine this, is someone else able to compare these times?"
Sounds like you are, so why don't you have a look and tell us what "he" was up to between 10:32-11:35 and 13:55-16:39? :)
Goodge was taking massive turd dumps at the side of the road for Will Cockerell to find to satisfy his demands that he knows everytime Goodge takes a break.
Why am I the only one in this entire thread that has actually been downloading the data and properly analyzing it instead of the Cockerell shills using the misleading Strava and Whoop graphs?
Genuinely curious now - what type of file did you manage to download from Strava? and then what did you use to analyse it?
I have been trying for a while now and all I have access to is the GPX file type for any of his runs, not the FIT or TCX file types which will have more data such as cadence and time stamps (I believe).
A quick google shows:
"A GPX (GPS Exchange Format) file is an electronic format for sharing cycling or walking routes, which you can view and follow on a phone or bike-mounted GPS device. The GPX file contains a list of points (that is, coordinates) that make up the route line for you to follow."
vs
"TCX, or Training Center XML, is a file format used and popularized by Garmin to share activity data, usually from GPS smart watches. It's typically used for sharing data about runs, hikes, cycling, and other outdoor activities. TCX is similar to GPX, but can contain more sport-specific activity details."
A GPX is all I have access to via his strava and the only option I'm given from to download. As per above this is only the list of points that make up the route, not time stamped or any other data like HR, cadence, pace etc etc... So how have you managed to analyse his cadence, stride length etc from a simple GPX file?
Or is there a way I can get a more data filled file other than a GPX?
Goodge was taking massive turd dumps at the side of the road for Will Cockerell to find to satisfy his demands that he knows everytime Goodge takes a break.
Why am I the only one in this entire thread that has actually been downloading the data and properly analyzing it instead of the Cockerell shills using the misleading Strava and Whoop graphs?
What do you use to analyse the files then big man?
I use my brain. I wrote my own software and scripts to retrieve the data and analyze it. You mean none of you Cockerell shills have the ability to even do this and still parade around Cockerell's fake numbers he pulled out of his rear?
OK. He is moving into Allenstown proper. Old US 22 is where the tracker is. It is a pretty big city. 125,000.
Lets get some unannounced eyeballs on this British invasion of GQ fashion models. If you need any help figuring out who Wil is, he is the one that looks like Derek Zoolander.
A GPX is all I have access to via his strava and the only option I'm given from to download. As per above this is only the list of points that make up the route, not time stamped or any other data like HR, cadence, pace etc etc... So how have you managed to analyse his cadence, stride length etc from a simple GPX file?
Or is there a way I can get a more data filled file other than a GPX?
All the heart rate, cadence, GPS, and timestamp data are on Strava and can be retrieved and formatted into GPX if you know how to script it.
Since it's my own custom scripts and software used for the download and analysis, I won't be posting that for Cockerell to misuse and further make up fake numbers and falsify data.
But if you Cockerell shills behave and tell Cockerell to stop falsifying numbers, maybe I'll post all the data somewhere for download.
