"Under the World Athletics proposals, in order to compete in the female category, transgender and DSD athletes would have to reduce their amount of blood testosterone from the current maximum of 5 nanomoles per liter to below 2.5, and remain below this level for two years rather than just one, as is the case now."
I think it's a just solution. Strikes a balance between inclusiveness and fairness. Zealots on either end of the political spectrum won't like it . . . but it's a fair compromise, IMO.
I don't think it's a fair compromise, but it's a politically savvy one. Because the new restrictions would apply not just to male transgender athletes in women's competition, but also to all the XY DSD athletes in women's athletics.
XY DSD athletes with testes, male levels of testosterone and functioning male androgen receptors like Semenya, Niyonsaba, Chand and Mboma are a much bigger and more pressing problem for Seb Coe and other officials at World Athletics than normally-developed males who now "identify as" women are.
So far, no trans-identified males have competed at the highest levels of elite international women's track & field. But dozens of XY DSD athletes with functioning testes have - and they've performed extremely well in women's competition, winning Olympic medals, racking up world championships, smashing previous women's records and setting new ones.
Moreover, in the 21st century, the numbers of XY DSD athletes in elite women's track have grown because a number of countries in sub-Saharan Africa seem to be deliberately scouting XY DSD athletes for the purpose of entering them in women's competition. (This is happening in elite soccer/football as well as in athletics.)
Putting a stop to the stream of XY DSD athletes "from the Global South" in women's elite athletics has turned out to be extremely difiicult for WA because of previous legal rulings, the nature of the DSD conditions at issue, the racial and regional geopolitics involved, and the growing popularity of gender identity ideology that says being a woman is a matter of identity and self-perception rather than biology and material reality.
What's more, most of the world feels sympathy and admiration for XY DSD athletes like Semenya, Niyonsaba and Chand. Whereas most of the world does not feel the same level or sort of sympathy and admiration for any of the trans-identified male athletes who've made a name for themselves by competing and winning in women's sports in recent years.
If WA does vote to put a "2.5 for 2 years" testostereone limit in place, a whole bunch of XY DSD athletes currently competing and winning in women's elite international athletics will become ineliigble for the women's category overnight. And they'll be ineligible for ALL events in the women's category, not just the women's middle-distance races in whiich XY DSD athletes are subject to a testosterone limit of 5 nmol/L per the current rules.
Any man who gets pleasure out of beating females in a sport has a problem.
I don't think it's a fair compromise, but it's a politically savvy one. Because the new restrictions would apply not just to male transgender athletes in women's competition, but also to all the XY DSD athletes in women's athletics.
XY DSD athletes with testes, male levels of testosterone and functioning male androgen receptors like Semenya, Niyonsaba, Chand and Mboma are a much bigger and more pressing problem for Seb Coe and other officials at World Athletics than normally-developed males who now "identify as" women are.
So far, no trans-identified males have competed at the highest levels of elite international women's track & field. But dozens of XY DSD athletes with functioning testes have - and they've performed extremely well in women's competition, winning Olympic medals, racking up world championships, smashing previous women's records and setting new ones.
Moreover, in the 21st century, the numbers of XY DSD athletes in elite women's track have grown because a number of countries in sub-Saharan Africa seem to be deliberately scouting XY DSD athletes for the purpose of entering them in women's competition. (This is happening in elite soccer/football as well as in athletics.)
Putting a stop to the stream of XY DSD athletes "from the Global South" in women's elite athletics has turned out to be extremely difiicult for WA because of previous legal rulings, the nature of the DSD conditions at issue, the racial and regional geopolitics involved, and the growing popularity of gender identity ideology that says being a woman is a matter of identity and self-perception rather than biology and material reality.
What's more, most of the world feels sympathy and admiration for XY DSD athletes like Semenya, Niyonsaba and Chand. Whereas most of the world does not feel the same level or sort of sympathy and admiration for any of the trans-identified male athletes who've made a name for themselves by competing and winning in women's sports in recent years.
If WA does vote to put a "2.5 for 2 years" testostereone limit in place, a whole bunch of XY DSD athletes currently competing and winning in women's elite international athletics will become ineliigble for the women's category overnight. And they'll be ineligible for ALL events in the women's category, not just the women's middle-distance races in whiich XY DSD athletes are subject to a testosterone limit of 5 nmol/L per the current rules.
Any man who gets pleasure out of beating females in a sport has a problem.
But you have a problem for getting worked up about it.
Worked up or talking about the topic of a thread on a messageboard?
Men have no business competing against smaller, weaker females how could anyone with even half a brain not see that? This whole thing is stupid and that should be very obvious.
If you are a man you compete vs other men not the girls, how can anyone not get that?
Would the powers that be let a girl battle a man in MMA, of course not.
"Under the World Athletics proposals, in order to compete in the female category, transgender and DSD athletes would have to reduce their amount of blood testosterone from the current maximum of 5 nanomoles per liter to below 2.5, and remain below this level for two years rather than just one, as is the case now."
I think it's a just solution. Strikes a balance between inclusiveness and fairness. Zealots on either end of the political spectrum won't like it . . . but it's a fair compromise, IMO.
I don't think it's a fair compromise, but it's a politically savvy one. Because the new restrictions would apply not just to male transgender athletes in women's competition, but also to all the XY DSD athletes in women's athletics.
XY DSD athletes with testes, male levels of testosterone and functioning male androgen receptors like Semenya, Niyonsaba, Chand and Mboma are a much bigger and more pressing problem for Seb Coe and other officials at World Athletics than normally-developed males who now "identify as" women are.
So far, no trans-identified males have competed at the highest levels of elite international women's track & field. But dozens of XY DSD athletes with functioning testes have - and they've performed extremely well in women's competition, winning Olympic medals, racking up world championships, smashing previous women's records and setting new ones.
Moreover, in the 21st century, the numbers of XY DSD athletes in elite women's track have grown because a number of countries in sub-Saharan Africa seem to be deliberately scouting XY DSD athletes for the purpose of entering them in women's competition. (This is happening in elite soccer/football as well as in athletics.)
Putting a stop to the stream of XY DSD athletes "from the Global South" in women's elite athletics has turned out to be extremely difiicult for WA because of previous legal rulings, the nature of the DSD conditions at issue, the racial and regional geopolitics involved, and the growing popularity of gender identity ideology that says being a woman is a matter of identity and self-perception rather than biology and material reality.
What's more, most of the world feels sympathy and admiration for XY DSD athletes like Semenya, Niyonsaba and Chand. Whereas most of the world does not feel the same level or sort of sympathy and admiration for any of the trans-identified male athletes who've made a name for themselves by competing and winning in women's sports in recent years.
If WA does vote to put a "2.5 for 2 years" testostereone limit in place, a whole bunch of XY DSD athletes currently competing and winning in women's elite international athletics will become ineliigble for the women's category overnight. And they'll be ineligible for ALL events in the women's category, not just the women's middle-distance races in whiich XY DSD athletes are subject to a testosterone limit of 5 nmol/L per the current rules.
I would add that if any one of the current athletes with DSD comes back in two or more years, they would not be globally competitive. They might make the team for their country if there isn't much domestic competition, but that's not anything WA needs to worry about.
We know women’s sport is slowly being removed due to a small minority despite the purpose of women sport is they can’t compete with men.
Therefore, we should take a biological male and female averages from different regions and assign a classification. Then like in parasports, everyone has a classification of how far from “normal average” they are so like for like can compete.
men and women are the current classification, whereas you could assign values like OS-1A through OS-1Z so like for like can compete.
Each event would have a different classification for the levels so a 5’5 120lbs vs 5’10 165lbs could compete at the same time on the same level and have winners of each class etc
A male out there with the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, ok with you?
A male singing in a girls choir, ok with you?
A male playing on a girls pro basketball team, ok with you?
Men are not women, any man thinking he is is dead wrong, he isn't. Can he have a baby, nope, does he have periods, nope.
Whole thing is insane.
I would have no problem with the first two. Why should someone's sex matter in the first two?
Why does te sex matter in any of thode right now? Why can't a man have enought common sense to realize what is simply wrong? He can't pick up on he just doesn't belong?
We know women’s sport is slowly being removed due to a small minority despite the purpose of women sport is they can’t compete with men.
Therefore, we should take a biological male and female averages from different regions and assign a classification. Then like in parasports, everyone has a classification of how far from “normal average” they are so like for like can compete.
men and women are the current classification, whereas you could assign values like OS-1A through OS-1Z so like for like can compete.
Each event would have a different classification for the levels so a 5’5 120lbs vs 5’10 165lbs could compete at the same time on the same level and have winners of each class etc
How about a man acts like one and leaves the girls alone when it comes to sports I jave no desires to compete vs girls do you? So some guy has some need to compete vs girls, kinda weird wouldn't you say?
From ICONS:a very important point: In regard to transgender athletes, the Council has agreed to exclude male-to-female transgender athletes who have been through male puberty from female World Rankings competition from 31 March 2023." This is a move in the right direction. However, It cannot be that only elite female athletes are deserving of fair competition and equal opportunity - the problems now fall on the far less visible girls and women in the world - young girls and athletes in sports at every level deserve fair competition and encouragement to thrive in their sports.
I would ask how these guys competing in womens sports actually feel about themselves when doing that?
Are they proud? Is this the future? Will we see an Olympic with three categories of sex?
AND no three categories at the olympics- this is going to continue to spiral unchecked and the PC mob will win this and no, no three categories- if you say you're a girl, then a girl you are. Sorry to say that it seems to be headed that way because nobody's stopped any of this yet.
I would ask how these guys competing in womens sports actually feel about themselves when doing that?
Are they proud? Is this the future? Will we see an Olympic with three categories of sex?
They feel great! They found the loophole that gets them to the top spot and that's what they're here for.
When Tiffany Thomas, 47 - one of the many males now using gender identity claims to compete and clean up in various kinds of women's cycling - won a big women's race in NYC last weekend, Thomas crowed that it made Thomas feel like a "superhero."
A transgender cyclist proudly said she felt like a “superhero” while winning her latest women’s race in New York — just days after a former champ quit the sport in anger at …
Lots of males absolutely love lording it over women - and they are totally shameless about it. For a certain kind of extremely narcissistic male who hates, resents, envies and feels covetousness towards women, intruding onto women's turf and engaging in male dominance displays there is the ultimate thrill. It makes them feel all puffed up and good about themselves. For many, it's sexually arousing too. For some, nothing inflates what used to be called "the fragile male ego" and "stiffens resolve" like showing women who's boss, putting us in our place and taking away our rights.
They feel great! They found the loophole that gets them to the top spot and that's what they're here for.
When Tiffany Thomas, 47 - one of the many males now using gender identity claims to compete and clean up in various kinds of women's cycling - won a big women's race in NYC last weekend, Thomas crowed that it made Thomas feel like a "superhero."
Lots of males absolutely love lording it over women - and they are totally shameless about it. For a certain kind of extremely narcissistic male who hates, resents, envies and feels covetousness towards women, intruding onto women's turf and engaging in male dominance displays there is the ultimate thrill. It makes them feel all puffed up and good about themselves. For many, it's sexually arousing too. For some, nothing inflates what used to be called "the fragile male ego" and "stiffens resolve" like showing women who's boss, putting us in our place and taking away our rights.
And having to look at THOSE SHORTS on the women's podium.... just smack us across the face with it why don't you......
It's great that RunRagged has weighed in. She has the best explanations of anyone here, including the Brojos, on topics like this. Will they let her write a whole essay on female, male, trans, DSD, testosteront levels, etc. and post it for us to read? When several of her posts have appeared on other threads, they almost formed a complete explanation of the DSD topic. Great stuff!
They feel great! They found the loophole that gets them to the top spot and that's what they're here for.
When Tiffany Thomas, 47 - one of the many males now using gender identity claims to compete and clean up in various kinds of women's cycling - won a big women's race in NYC last weekend, Thomas crowed that it made Thomas feel like a "superhero."
Lots of males absolutely love lording it over women - and they are totally shameless about it. For a certain kind of extremely narcissistic male who hates, resents, envies and feels covetousness towards women, intruding onto women's turf and engaging in male dominance displays there is the ultimate thrill. It makes them feel all puffed up and good about themselves. For many, it's sexually arousing too. For some, nothing inflates what used to be called "the fragile male ego" and "stiffens resolve" like showing women who's boss, putting us in our place and taking away our rights.
Hey Transphobia and Misandria Verbosa, when you’re done sulking about evil sexed up puffed fragile dominating narcissistic covetous shameless men, why don’t you ask how Tiffany’s competitors felt about it, and if they are loving it, then just shove it up?
They feel great! They found the loophole that gets them to the top spot and that's what they're here for.
When Tiffany Thomas, 47 - one of the many males now using gender identity claims to compete and clean up in various kinds of women's cycling - won a big women's race in NYC last weekend, Thomas crowed that it made Thomas feel like a "superhero."
Lots of males absolutely love lording it over women - and they are totally shameless about it. For a certain kind of extremely narcissistic male who hates, resents, envies and feels covetousness towards women, intruding onto women's turf and engaging in male dominance displays there is the ultimate thrill. It makes them feel all puffed up and good about themselves. For many, it's sexually arousing too. For some, nothing inflates what used to be called "the fragile male ego" and "stiffens resolve" like showing women who's boss, putting us in our place and taking away our rights.
Is this person eligible under the current UCI rule that went into effect on July 1 of last year? If so, was this person under the new limit (2.5 nmol/ L) before the new policy was announced? Or is there any kind of "phase in" period for the new policy like the rule for DSD athletes in track?
If this is phase in period, then trans athletes will eventually become uncompetitive. If it is not, the new policy is not good enough.
