Well anyway you believe Joe should have held all the US track records from 1500m through 10000m. Some of us know better.
to be clear, you're speculating on what you think he couldn't do, albeit with fair evidence supporting your position, since he DIDN'T do it. but speculation is speculation, and there really are no accurate formulas other than a range of acceptable educated guesses. so, no one here is claiming joe would have developed into the 5k world record holder here for good reason. but, for my part of this educated guessing game, i've raced both joe and bob kennedy, and seen a fair amount of their races as well. put a peak-fitness joe falcon against peak-fitness bob kennedy in the 5k, and i may put my money 60/40 on joe. or maybe 51/49 on joe. and they both break 13. or joe falls.
again, not that anyone cares about potential in our bottom line sport, but i have no problem agreeing with the speculation that joe had sub-13 potential. why would you think a 3:49 miler with joe's range would automatically be inferior to a kinkaid or solinsky or tegenkamp or rupp? no, i'm not saying he could automatically do it, and he could be beaten by any of these guys, but i'd put him in the range of these guys in a 5k any day...
Also, maybe some people fail to realize that in Joe Falcon's time, only one person in history had broken 13:00 and the 10000m WR was 27:13.
When Falcon ran 13:20, during some of those years the fastest time in the world would be 13:08 and 13:12 was a typical winning time in a meet like Oslo or Berlin.
But 3:49 was a very legit time for the mile then too, so naturally he'd stay with the mile because it's the premier event. I always thought he should have been a 5000m guy but what do I know?
Would have been interesting to see him in the steeple.
Well anyway you believe Joe should have held all the US track records from 1500m through 10000m. Some of us know better.
Don’t put words in my mouth. He was a 10k guy with insane leg speed. The 5/10 times were from Coach McDonnell, not me.
I do not have to put words in your mouth. You said you have no doubt Joe could have run 27:20. Apparently you don’t understand what the US records were at the time.
Don’t put words in my mouth. He was a 10k guy with insane leg speed. The 5/10 times were from Coach McDonnell, not me.
I do not have to put words in your mouth. You said you have no doubt Joe could have run 27:20. Apparently you don’t understand what the US records were at the time.
Absolutely zero doubt Falcon had the potential for <27:20. Big difference between that and “holding all the us records between 1500 and 10k”. Cmon, man.
I do not have to put words in your mouth. You said you have no doubt Joe could have run 27:20. Apparently you don’t understand what the US records were at the time.
Absolutely zero doubt Falcon had the potential for <27:20. Big difference between that and “holding all the us records between 1500 and 10k”. Cmon, man.
It is the same. Joe Falcon was a 3:49 miler. If a 3:49 miler like Joe can run 27:20 he will hold all the US records between 1500 and 10000 in the early 1990s. This is elementary stuff.
I remember when he ran that. Had a track & field news cover with him on it winning but I was never actually able to watch the race until it went up on YouTube a few years back.
Al Michaels commentated brilliantly on the Dream Mile play-by-play that afternoon.
Was the final lap a 53? The announcers said 54. I am not sure.
I thought it was sub-53 actually, but I’m just going off memory. I am younger than Joe, but I was lucky enough to see him run a few times, including the NCAA cross country championships in AZ in 1986. He was an absolute beast, with speed and strength. Pretty sure he could almost bench press 300 lbs too. He would’ve broken 13:00 had he really focused on it. In the pre-super shoe era. Falcon was likely a 12:55 guy. That 3:49 Oslo mile was incredible. Especially since he didn’t seem like a “miler.”
Absolutely zero doubt Falcon had the potential for <27:20. Big difference between that and “holding all the us records between 1500 and 10k”. Cmon, man.
It is the same. Joe Falcon was a 3:49 miler. If a 3:49 miler like Joe can run 27:20 he will hold all the US records between 1500 and 10000 in the early 1990s. This is elementary stuff.
The American records 1500/3k/5k were held by a 3:48/13:00 guy. The mile was a 3:47. It isn't remotely clear he would be holding more than the 10k record. Possible but he would have needed really good days...
And yeah him having one more year like 1990 would have been fun. Instead he is one of a half dozen guys where you go what if...
It is the same. Joe Falcon was a 3:49 miler. If a 3:49 miler like Joe can run 27:20 he will hold all the US records between 1500 and 10000 in the early 1990s. This is elementary stuff.
The American records 1500/3k/5k were held by a 3:48/13:00 guy. The mile was a 3:47. It isn't remotely clear he would be holding more than the 10k record. Possible but he would have needed really good days...
And yeah him having one more year like 1990 would have been fun. Instead he is one of a half dozen guys where you go what if...
Falcon was never going to run 27:20. The point is if Falcon could run 27:20 he was going to own the US record book at that time. Falcon had an acceleration that was unusual but he never showed anything close to 27:20 ability. It is astounding how people credit Joe with ability that he didn’t show. Nenow ran 27:20 but he was probably a 3:58 miler at best. People have no idea what it would have been like to have 27:20 ability with 3:49. Back then that meant you might have an Olympic gold medal.
You do know that Joe Falcon won the NCAA XC and 10,000m track titles BEFORE he ran 3:49? The guy was just getting started when his track career basically ended before he was 27 in 1993 (that same year he won the Mt. Sac 10k and won the US indoor 3000m before his final injury). People can say what they want, but the guy had mega talent and there is no doubt that had he stayed healthy and put in a few more seasons then he would've had a legit shot at some of the US records at the time for 3k, 5k and 10k. He had the physical tools and more raw speed than Bob Kennedy who had a heckuva career and became the guy who did break the 3k / 5k records. Falcon basically had the tools of Todd Williams and Bob Kennedy combined with the 1500m speed of Steve Holman. You can ask people from that era and they would say that when Falcon was at the top of his game and his confidence was high then he could compete with anyone.
The American records 1500/3k/5k were held by a 3:48/13:00 guy. The mile was a 3:47. It isn't remotely clear he would be holding more than the 10k record. Possible but he would have needed really good days...
And yeah him having one more year like 1990 would have been fun. Instead he is one of a half dozen guys where you go what if...
Falcon was never going to run 27:20. The point is if Falcon could run 27:20 he was going to own the US record book at that time. Falcon had an acceleration that was unusual but he never showed anything close to 27:20 ability. It is astounding how people credit Joe with ability that he didn’t show. Nenow ran 27:20 but he was probably a 3:58 miler at best. People have no idea what it would have been like to have 27:20 ability with 3:49. Back then that meant you might have an Olympic gold medal.
Everyone seems to think it was somehow automatic that Falcon woulda coulda shoulda run under 13 and 27:20 but his lifetime bests speaks for themselves. He never got under 28:20 nor under 13:20 so people are assuming really drastic improvement. That's wishful thinking because on your road to that improvement things tend to happen to derail you.
That's part of the fun. Now with YouTube you can watch all these old races online. NCAA finals, Olympic Trials/finals, national/world championships, state meets, there's plenty out there. Enjoy.
There are two things I'd love to see letsrun add:
1. A history section- stories, videos, etc I just remember the 1970's with some awesome stories about the Black Socks Brits and others.
2. A section devoted to links to races- road races, track meets, cross-country. They do a great job of providing viewing information for major races but I'm sure there's some 5k-1/2 marathons happening with world class runners most weekends.
And, yes, I remember Falcon- he really was a great runners and tough and I heard a story about him benching something that we as much or more than many on the Arkansas football team.