Kara Goucher Alleges Alberto Salazar Sexually Assaulted Her in Her New Book

is there any place where it specifically says there was penetration? all i have seen is this "Finger where it wasn't supposed to be"

given the fact that she seemed unsure and thought maybe he was just BAD at the massaging, i have to wonder, because penetration is quite clearly horrible and can not be accidental. Whereas perhaps the mind could make excuses for a finger being in that general area, without going in.

How ironic.

You're obviously not used to people moderating their language. It wasn't "accidental" or SafeSport wouldn't have upheld her complaint and rejected Salazar's denial.

yes, one example please try to keep up

More proof that humans are fallible; Salazar for massaging his athletes (which is nuts even at the turn of the century), Goucher for wanting him back, amongst other things in their tumultuous relationship.

If true, Goucher has provided a service to women and men everywhere by publicizing what appropriate boundaries are in their professional relationships and another shot across the bow as to what inappropriate working relationships are like.

If untrue, then Salazar is collateral damage in the big picture. Men will see this as patently unfair where women will see his downfall as worth it.

As a male and the father of a daughter, who has placed her in the care of coaches, I swing back and forth on the pendulum of their truth.

Condolences to both.

hey dumb dumb, im referring to how she was somehow able to brush it off as such at the time it happened.

did she or the safesport reports say specifically there was penetration?

i am asking genuinely, because i have not read that anywhere. not that I have gone over this with a fine tooth comb.

I do have something to offer -- my sympathy. The value added -- my words in response to Kara's words -- is "she has all my sympathy". Seriously, what is wrong with you? You need to see someone about it.

Isn't this thread about Kara and Kara's book?

NYT reported over a year ago from SafeSport's decision:

The case against Salazar was pursued by the United States Center for SafeSport, an organization that investigates reports of abuse within Olympic sports. SafeSport ruled Salazar permanently ineligible in July 2021, finding that he had committed four violations, which included two instances of penetrating a runner with a finger while giving an athletic massage.

"two instances of penetrating a runner with a finger" - quite clearly horrible indeed. But people here continue to muse whether or not the victim was comfortable with it, and try to argue that penetration with a finger doesn't count as rape and so on.

P.S. DOJ's definition of rape:

The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

"with any body part or object"... I rest my case.

I hope this wasn't already in the 17 pages of posts I didn't read, but I think it's maybe worth listening to a more in-depth perspective every now and then:

runningrogue.libsyn.com

Episode #309: The Longest Race with Kara Goucher

Running Rogue

Warning: This episode contains discussion of disordered eating and emotional and sexual abuse. In this episode, I interview Kara Goucher on her just-released book The Longest Race. In the book, she shares details about h...

Link:runningrogue.libsyn.com/episode-309-th...

At the same time, once you mention fingers going where they don't belong minds go into the gutter. Call out Salazar at the cost of a lot of people trying and failing not to think of the pink elephant? Even when there is a clear moral high ground not an easy choice to make.

Well, I have read Kara's book cover to cover. I also read the majority of responses here as well. I just think it is totally absurd to question Kara's account. Many of the responses, clearly have not read the book, and forward by Mary Pilon. It is a explosive account of professional running for women that we should all read, especially for men. It is a great read for anyone interested in distance running as well.

You would think that a professional trainer/runner/normal man, would not do what he did to Kara. It is common sense that what he did is wrong and needs help. I can't accept any excuse to what he did to Kara as a man, or if Kara was my daughter. Could you as a father? That is absurd what Salzar did, and we know anything close to those behaviors are ridiculous. needs help

I don't know why you want to hijack this serious thread about Kara and try to make it about your feelings about me, who only expressed sympathy for the victim.

But what is surprising (but then again ...) is your admission now, despite posting so much as a self-appointed moral authority in this thread about Kara and Kara's book, that you don't recognize what Kara's words are, despite them appearing in each article on and interviews with Kara, including on the front page of "letsrun".

Here is my original quote: "If Kara felt uncomfortable in inappropriate coach-athlete situations, she has all my sympathy." Again, what is my faux pas here? What am I supposed to quote so that Kara gets proper attribution rather than me plagiarizing her? If I had quoted "uncomfortable" or "inappropriate" or "situation", you would no doubt read more hidden meanings into it, and then blame me for giving these words with plain meanings different character.

For expressing all my sympathy to the victim, when she feels uncomfortable in inappropriate situations controlled by the coach in an coach-athlete power imbalance, I was instantly labelled a mysogynist, creep, repulsive, false, etc., apparently because I did not use the words Kara also did not use: "sexual assault" or "rape".

Sorry, but that is not normal.

Since we are talking about events in Kara's book, I was not referring just to the Safesport verdict which happened years ago. From another article on the book, which of these situations, where Kara also has all my sympathy, can be accurately described as "sexual assault" or "rape":

"She writes in the book that Salazar also drank heavily, sometimes even during training sessions; pushed medications and supplements on her that she didn’t need; made crude comments about her body, breasts, butt and weight regularly; and watched her while she sat, topless (by his recommendation) in the cryo chamber recovery unit they used after workouts."

They can all be accurately described as "inappropriate" coach-athlete "situations" that might make athletes feel "uncomfortable", and that merits all my sympathy.

Your single minded obsession with this particular incident is starting to seem pretty creepy, Mr "high school xc coach".

1: The use of the word "if".

2: The downplaying of the rapes as "inappropriate coach-athlete situations".

3: Later you even topped it with direct lies by falsely calling the rapes "fictitious" and "hypothetical".

4: Yet you insist that you cannot be criticized here, instead of being ashamed and apologizing for pretending that there was no rape and that the victim might have enjoyed "the massages".

I don't see anything wrong with the word "if". It is normal English construct to establish the context.

By now you should know that Kara talks about her experiencing using the same words, like "uncomfortable", "inappropriate" and "situations" while she was an "athlete" for "coach" Salazar. There were many things Kara said that could be considered inappropriate and uncomfortable, and not just the massages.

Indeed I admit being caught off-guard by the rape accusation, not thinking anyone would use that term to describe the finger massages, even if it technically fits the definition, partly because I don't recall Kara or Safesport ever accusing Salazar of rape. Is that in the book or in any of the interviews?

And by now you should know I was not downplaying the massages, but talking about all the other experiences she mentioned in her book and interviews. Then "if" makes even more sense, as some athletes might be comfortable with public weigh-ins in their underwear and crude jokes about butts and boobs, even if they are inappropriate in a coach-athlete situation. It would be awkward to offer my sympathy to women if they like the dirty jokes.

I don't feel ashamed or the need to apologize though. On the contrary, if anything, I think I'm due several apologies for the extreme reactions to things I did not say but I will not hold my breath.

SafeSport deliberations are confidential, to protect complainants. All that was known publicly was that Salazar faced allegations of sexual assault. It was Goucher who later identified herself as a complainant and described what happened. She chose not to go into graphic detail about the incident. It wasnt necessary to do so in order to merely satisfy the curiosity of an insensitive clod like yourself.

Your "sympathy" - the thing you say you have "learned" to feel for women. Like the "sympathy" you might feel for the lower orders, those who aren't your equals. But your sympathy is conditional; it depends on - as you have said - "if" a finger went where it shouldn't. She said it did but you're hedging your bets. So much sympathy.

"Sympathy" is the strongest term you can come up with? You might feel sympathy for someone who has come down with a cold. Your choice of words reveals so much about who you are.