Coevett wrote:
the Kenyans were always riding on the coat-tails of Bilika's success for Ethiopia
Who is this Bilika you speak of? Is he related to Rushida?
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Coevett wrote:
the 'Swedish' Eritrean junior xcountry champ Fisher.
Fisher... Sounds like a typical Eritrean name. Like Kenio is a Kenyan name.
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Coevett wrote:
Jo72 wrote:
It seems only the Ethiopians have that advantage now as especially their women are better than ever and there have been no doping bust whatsoever.
It's more plausible that Ethiopians have a genetic edge, and that the Kenyans were always riding on the coat-tails of Bilika's success for Ethiopia, doping their way to success disguised under the 'East African natural born runner' legend.
Ethiopians and Kenyans are very different genetically. There is no genetic reason why these two neighbouring countries should be the two best distance running nations out of 200+, when there are a number of other high altitude countries that do next to nothing in distance running.
Nonsense they/re both on the rift valley at altitude.
Ethiopia testing is where Kenya was 10 years ago -cannot believe you wrote that. EPO in the hotel what planet are you? on
Was Kip Keino on EPO! Both countries have been solidly at it since 1990 when the Italian coaches moved over from cycling.
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Coevett wrote:
due to genes not doping
Joke aside here is a pic that show the genetic difference:
Image:i.imgur.com/Y4sHa4u.jpg(a North African receiving the grandson of Mandela)
Whatever these recent busts have done, we shall see soon what impact it has on Kenyan results (World Athletics and Olympics).
The cyclist Italian coachs in East Africa in the 90s? that's something new I add to myself.
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What about “I don’t want to run the 800” do some of you not understand?
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Jo72 wrote:
It seems only the Ethiopians have that advantage now as especially their women are better than ever and there have been no doping bust whatsoever.
Maybe the cheapest and most effective anti doping tool would be to ask the Ethiopian women to swear in gods name that haven’t taken any PEDs. I’ve noticed that without exception they are very devout Christians and faith plays an enormous role in their lives. Surely they wouldn’t throw their saviour under the bus? 😀
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Coevett wrote:
Surely Kenya has caught all the bad apples now?
Surely Kenya has been banned now?
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rekrunner wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Says the weirdo who believes it is unfair to call runners convicted of anti-doping offences as dopers or cheats, and who goes aganist the universal consensus of scientists, anti-doping experts, WADA, AIU, World Athletics, athletics fans, and the average lay person, in holding that PEDs do not give athletes any advantage.
Once again, if your beliefs of which PEDs worked, we would have seen the effects universally, in Africans and non-Africans alike -- for all the reasons Armstronglivs tells me: human nature, do what it takes to succeed mentality, etc. etc.
There are 11 ways you can violate anti-doping rules. Just like jay-walking or shoplifting does not make you guilty of murder, each offence comes with its own set of pre-requisites and consequences.
I share the consensus of the best scientists that observations in artificial settings, not accurately replicating real training and competition, and conducted on the wrong subjects in the wrong state of training, should not be projected onto elite athletes and their best elite performances. This is basic intellectual common sense.
WADA and bodies like the AIU, WA do not actually burden themselves with deciding which drugs can rightfully be called PEDs in laymen's terms, or whether a PED actually enhanced any performance in each instance, because the WADA standard is a subjective assessment that a drug is potentially able to enhance performance, and the WADA committee doesn't even have to give which reasons were considered for inclusion onto the banned list.
Gee, I wonder if drugs help runners?
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ukathleticscoach wrote:
Coevett wrote:
It's more plausible that Ethiopians have a genetic edge, and that the Kenyans were always riding on the coat-tails of Bilika's success for Ethiopia, doping their way to success disguised under the 'East African natural born runner' legend.
Ethiopians and Kenyans are very different genetically. There is no genetic reason why these two neighbouring countries should be the two best distance running nations out of 200+, when there are a number of other high altitude countries that do next to nothing in distance running.
Nonsense they/re both on the rift valley at altitude.
Ethiopia testing is where Kenya was 10 years ago -cannot believe you wrote that. EPO in the hotel what planet are you? on
Was Kip Keino on EPO! Both countries have been solidly at it since 1990 when the Italian coaches moved over from cycling.
Many of the Kenyan busts have come from the AIU. Is the AIU not testing Ethiopians?
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dullard wrote:
AIU should really appeal their bans to CAS to have them increased.
How is these not four year bans reduced at most to 3 by early admission?
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Newsflash: athletes from many countries get busted.
40% of them in the last year have been Kenyans. You didn't notice that?
I did. So that means 60% are from non-Kenyans? I recall asking if you could connect the performance benefit from the best of the non-Kenyan 60% to doping? Surely it includes non-Africans producing similar Kenyan-esque performances. I didn't notice any response from you.
Given the larger percentage of Kenyans in the global pool of elite athletes, I expect a larger percentage athletes busted, for the same relative prevalence rate.
I also noted it came from Coe, who can only speak testing conducted for the WA/AIU. In a couple years, WADA will compile an ADRV report for 2022 with more accurate figures compiled from all of its signatories. Furthermore, AIU testing by country is not uniform -- all else being equal, they will target and test talented athletes more often.
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Liar sooouerrt wrote:
dullard wrote:
AIU should really appeal their bans to CAS to have them increased.
How is these not four year bans reduced at most to 3 by early admission?
This depends on whether the drugs are "specified" or "not specified". The default bans, as well as who has the burden of proving intent (leading to 4 years), are not the same for all drugs. Marijuana gets you 30 days, if you jump through all the hoops.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Gee, I wonder if drugs help runners?
Yes, you do. Me too. Once again, we are in complete agreement.
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ukathleticscoach wrote:
Was Kip Keino on EPO! Both countries have been solidly at it since 1990 when the Italian coaches moved over from cycling.
Do you seriously believe that a guy can climb out if a hospital bed in 1968 after being seriously ill with a gallbladder infection, race to the stadium on foot to make the starting line, then crush Jim Ryun in the performance of a lifetime?
Blood doping written all over it.
Both Kip Keino himself, and his manager, were involved in corruption scandals.
Charles Mukora was not only Keino's coach but also head coach of the 1968 Olympic team. He was expelled from the IOC in 1999 for taking bribes for votes.And of course Keino himself was arrested for stealing millions of dollars he was supposed to allot to talented young Kenyan runners, but got off after corrupt Kenyan parliamentarians intervened.
If any middle-distance athlete doped before 1990 it was Keino.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
40% of them in the last year have been Kenyans. You didn't notice that?
I did. So that means 60% are from non-Kenyans? I recall asking if you could connect the performance benefit from the best of the non-Kenyan 60% to doping? Surely it includes non-Africans producing similar Kenyan-esque performances. I didn't notice any response from you.
Given the larger percentage of Kenyans in the global pool of elite athletes, I expect a larger percentage athletes busted, for the same relative prevalence rate.
I also noted it came from Coe, who can only speak testing conducted for the WA/AIU. In a couple years, WADA will compile an ADRV report for 2022 with more accurate figures compiled from all of its signatories. Furthermore, AIU testing by country is not uniform -- all else being equal, they will target and test talented athletes more often.
Kenyan athletes do not make up 40% of athletes in the testing pool, and they are overrepresented in elite athletics in the first place because of their rampant doping. Plus Kenyan testing is corrupt, with text messages and tea money.
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Coevett wrote:
And of course Keino himself was arrested for stealing millions of dollars he was supposed to allot to talented young Kenyan runners
And of course you are lying.
Keino was not arrested. Keino was charged with misappropriating $546,000, as per the article you posted on the other thread.You are a compulsive liar. You have zero credibility.
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Wardaddy wrote:
Yikes…Chebiwott wasn’t playing around:
”Androsterone, Adiols, Pregnanediol11-ketoetiocholanolone, Etiocholanolone (Etio), testosterone, 5a-androstanediol, and 15 epitestosterone were present in the athlete’s body”
Sheesh.
I think I'm most upset that she didn't run faster than 67:54.
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reeqh wrote:
Coevett wrote:
And of course Keino himself was arrested for stealing millions of dollars he was supposed to allot to talented young Kenyan runners
And of course you are lying.
Keino was not arrested. Keino was charged with misappropriating $546,000, as per the article you posted on the other thread.You are a compulsive liar. You have zero credibility.
Right, so they didn't bother arresting him, they just charged him. Kenyan legal system is even more corrupt than I thought. Except that you are lying again.
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What People Are Talking About On LetsRun
Of General Interest
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RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
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RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
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Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
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Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
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Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year