You, and old people who think like you, are a major reason for why our nation is failing into shambles.
You lived through a post-war period where America was the only intact industrial power and as a result you lived in the civilizational equivalent of the Garden of Eden. What did you do with this great gift that history bestowed upon you? You became obese, watched your television, gave up your religious beliefs and worshiped self gratification as the highest ends. You left the subsequent generation with an inverted demographic pyramid after decided to not start a family so you could continue to serve your own hedonistic consumption. As a result, we have massive immigration and diversification which has ripped our national culture apart at the seams. I imagine the world around you as an old person is very troubling. The country is in decay and it happened under your stewardship.
I don't know where you land politically but your comment shows your liberal priors... "we value equality...why?... We believe the United States was leader for democracy in the world.... why? Why are these things good? We will carry the torch forward because we have no other choice but you old people need to understand that your ideas of how the world should be lead to nothing but destruction.
I guess I am learning from you
I didn't that only old people were fat and young people were not fat!
I didn't know that old people gave up on religion but that young people still are religious.
I didn't know that only old people watched too much TV (and other media too?)and young people watch just the right amount.
I didn't know that old people had small families but that young people have larger families.
I didn't know that only old people had "hedonistic consumption" but not young people.
I am learning much from you about myopia.
Here is something else you can learn.
Each generation is a product of those before it. You were part of the generation that let it all fall apart.
How can you expect young people to develop into morally upright adults when there is no mentorship, no direction, no investment from those before them. You could make the argument that your generation suffered a similar fate but I would argue that the 60s/70s youth revolt against their parents shows that it was specifically your generation where the decay took root.
There never was good ol days. There was innocence, and then it gets lost. This is still true today and was true 100 years ago.
^This is one of the best descriptions of "the good old days" that I have seen, and I'm going to steal it from you (so you might see me make a similar comment in the future).
The PRESENT is better than the past in just about all ways...we make progress on all fronts all the time...better medical treatments, more entertainment choices, better and safer food, more leisure opportunities, better and safer cars, and on and on and on.
What is totally surreal is how the parties flipped positions. The Karl Rove Republican Party has been replaced with a party of the working class. The Democrats favor the Davos elite, involve us in a preventable wars, and pass spending bills that cripple the economy in order to enrich their own. Like Karl Rove, the Democrats coordinate with the corrupt intelligence agencies and manipulate the media with flat-out provable lies.
Republicans act like passive victims. There was a time when Republican men risked their lives to defend our values. Now they won’t even speak up because they are afraid they will get called a name. At the end of the day, neither party has our backs.
We valued equality over equity. Our goal was to give everyone an equal chance not to rig the system so all groups end up the same. We knew backgrounds were all different and that's just life.
We had real patriotism not fake patriotism. I see adults who call themselves "patriots" flying adulterated flags and sympathizing with those who attacked our capital to stop our election.
We believed in science and education. (We would have been shocked if we knew that 50 years after our first lunar landing we would be trying to land someone on the moon again....huh?) We respected scientists.
We believed in honesty. Our politicians at least pretended to be honest and didn't flaunt dishonestly in our faces. There would be no George Santos still in office.
Boys didn't play in girls sports.
Guns were bought for hunting, not to fight the government.
We respected the police.
We believed the United States was leader for democracy in the world. We knew our country wasn't perfect but we still had an important role in the world.
Gonna refute some of that. (If I didn't comment on a point of yours, that means I agreed with it)
1) We valued equality LESS 50 years ago than we do today. Yes, the Trump era brought out a bunch of white racist nationalists who have been vocal and briefly had a megaphone, but the pushback to that has been substantial (from NASCAR banning the Confederate Battle Flag to sports teams changing their names to Confederate monuments and statues being torn down, etc.). Overall, marginalized people are WAY better off today with a greater percentage of people caring about that and real progress toward making things better. We actually have Trump to thank for that...he was SOOOO bad and SOOOO racist and had so many like followers that he opened the eyes of many people to how bad things still were, and we have taken great strides in stopping that kind of nonsense.
2) On the gun issue, you're wrong. One of the mantras of the NRA as LONG BEEN that the Second Amendment is there to protect citizens against a tyrannical government. That was true 50 years ago.
3) Not sure who you mean by "we", but for sure not all groups of people in this country respected the police 50 years ago. Today, a greater percentage of WHITE people do not respect the police like they did 50 years ago because more white people are wise to and sympathetic to the plight of minorities in this country with regard to their interactions with police. We also now have a LOT of video evidence about how police have been trampling on our rights. Policing in this country needs to change...and not just toward minorities. Go watch some First Amendment Audits on YouTube and be educated about how much police often overstep their bounds.
I will acknowledge some points on 1 but not at all on 2. On your 2nd point, I said "people" bought guns for hunting not to fight the government. What the NRA might have said does not reflect why the average person bought guns 50 years ago. Militias types and other antigovernment types buying guns is much much more prevalent now.
As far as my your 1st point, I said we valued equality more than equity. The quest for equity often comes at the price of equal treatment. Equity was a concept never even thought of 50 years ago. I didn't say we believed in equality more back than, I said we valued equality over equity more back than.
As far as number 3, you agree, but explain your thoughts on it.
There never was good ol days. There was innocence, and then it gets lost. This is still true today and was true 100 years ago.
^This is one of the best descriptions of "the good old days" that I have seen, and I'm going to steal it from you (so you might see me make a similar comment in the future).
The PRESENT is better than the past in just about all ways...we make progress on all fronts all the time...better medical treatments, more entertainment choices, better and safer food, more leisure opportunities, better and safer cars, and on and on and on.
Of course the present is better than the past for all the reasons you mentioned. I was speaking about a change in values.
What is totally surreal is how the parties flipped positions. The Karl Rove Republican Party has been replaced with a party of the working class. The Democrats favor the Davos elite, involve us in a preventable wars, and pass spending bills that cripple the economy in order to enrich their own. Like Karl Rove, the Democrats coordinate with the corrupt intelligence agencies and manipulate the media with flat-out provable lies.
This can be debated on another thread but really you are wrong. What you believe is fake.
I didn't that only old people were fat and young people were not fat!
I didn't know that old people gave up on religion but that young people still are religious.
I didn't know that only old people watched too much TV (and other media too?)and young people watch just the right amount.
I didn't know that old people had small families but that young people have larger families.
I didn't know that only old people had "hedonistic consumption" but not young people.
I am learning much from you about myopia.
Here is something else you can learn.
Each generation is a product of those before it.
I guess you did teach me something else, every mistake my generation made was caused by the generation before us.
So you don't have to take responsibility because it was my generations fault and my generation doesn't have to take responsibility because it was the fault of the generation before us.
I like it, we never have to be responsible for our own behavior. Its mom's & dad's fault. (I guess I always had foolish notions about what maturity meant.)
2) On the gun issue, you're wrong. One of the mantras of the NRA as LONG BEEN that the Second Amendment is there to protect citizens against a tyrannical government. That was true 50 years ago.
"50 years ago", is right about the time when the NRA shifted from its historic hunting/marksmanship focus to becoming a strident gun rights advocacy group. The view of the Second Amendment in politics absolutely has shifted as a result of that.
The shift has been a de-emphasis on the "well-regulated militia" clause to emphasize gun ownership as an individual right.
This post was edited 2 weeks ago by Monkeys Skyping.
With social media so prominent we allow wacko minorities on the extreme right and left to speak for the majority middle.
I do agree that the internet/social media has transformed the US (and probably other countries) into a society where the craziest voices on either "side" amplify each other and market in disinformation.
I disagree, however, that most people have retained the reasonable principles of 40 years ago. Most people, unfortunately, feel compelled politically to align with the crazier voices on their chosen side of the political spectrum and it effects their ability to be reasonable.
The examples are endless. Some large percentage of people who consider themselves Republican actually believe Trump won the 2020 election and/or only lost because of some impossible conspiracy. Similarly, some large percentage of people who consider themselves Democrats have come to believe ideas like Robin DeAngelo's "everything is racist against blacks" and/or that roving gangs of racist white cops are running around the country randomly killing black people is largely true.
The saddest thing about it all is that both "sides" have formed a very cynical view of America -- it's past, present and future. Cynicism and related hypocrisy is the go-to idea for virtually any issue or event that comes up.
Gonna refute some of that. (If I didn't comment on a point of yours, that means I agreed with it)
1) We valued equality LESS 50 years ago than we do today. Yes, the Trump era brought out a bunch of white racist nationalists who have been vocal and briefly had a megaphone, but the pushback to that has been substantial (from NASCAR banning the Confederate Battle Flag to sports teams changing their names to Confederate monuments and statues being torn down, etc.). Overall, marginalized people are WAY better off today with a greater percentage of people caring about that and real progress toward making things better. We actually have Trump to thank for that...he was SOOOO bad and SOOOO racist and had so many like followers that he opened the eyes of many people to how bad things still were, and we have taken great strides in stopping that kind of nonsense.
2) On the gun issue, you're wrong. One of the mantras of the NRA as LONG BEEN that the Second Amendment is there to protect citizens against a tyrannical government. That was true 50 years ago.
3) Not sure who you mean by "we", but for sure not all groups of people in this country respected the police 50 years ago. Today, a greater percentage of WHITE people do not respect the police like they did 50 years ago because more white people are wise to and sympathetic to the plight of minorities in this country with regard to their interactions with police. We also now have a LOT of video evidence about how police have been trampling on our rights. Policing in this country needs to change...and not just toward minorities. Go watch some First Amendment Audits on YouTube and be educated about how much police often overstep their bounds.
I will acknowledge some points on 1 but not at all on 2. On your 2nd point, I said "people" bought guns for hunting not to fight the government. What the NRA might have said does not reflect why the average person bought guns 50 years ago. Militias types and other antigovernment types buying guns is much much more prevalent now.
As far as my your 1st point, I said we valued equality more than equity. The quest for equity often comes at the price of equal treatment. Equity was a concept never even thought of 50 years ago. I didn't say we believed in equality more back than, I said we valued equality over equity more back than.
As far as number 3, you agree, but explain your thoughts on it.
1) Nah...50 years ago, people were buying guns to "fight" the government (having them for the purpose of having to do that if they felt they needed to...which is silly, because the government can easily overwhelm any citizen). The NRA drives the mindset of gun owners in this country. That it is more prevalent now doesn't mean it wasn't a huge issue 50 years ago, and it is inaccurate to say that 50 years ago people were buying guns for hunting not to fight the government.
2) No, we did not value equality in any way more than we do today. Just not true.
3) Ok, just so you know what you did there...you were taking the view of a white person and projecting that onto ALL people. THAT was wrong.
What is totally surreal is how the parties flipped positions. The Karl Rove Republican Party has been replaced with a party of the working class. The Democrats favor the Davos elite, involve us in a preventable wars, and pass spending bills that cripple the economy in order to enrich their own. Like Karl Rove, the Democrats coordinate with the corrupt intelligence agencies and manipulate the media with flat-out provable lies.
Republicans act like passive victims. There was a time when Republican men risked their lives to defend our values. Now they won’t even speak up because they are afraid they will get called a name. At the end of the day, neither party has our backs.
Wow. MOST of that is BS.
1) Republicans HAVE gained a bigger portion of the working class. This is a failing of the Democratic Party which took that voting block for granted.
2) BS about the Democrats favoring the elite. The planks in our platform are all about taxing the rich much more, trying to level the playing field for all, health care for all, etc. This mantra that Democrats favor coastal elites is just BS.
3) Your comment about corrupt intelligence agencies is just batsh!t crazy talk. Seek help.
4) Republicans DO act like passive victims. It's because Republicans have become fascists, and victimhood is one of the 14 defining characteristics of fascism...of which current Republicans embrace ALL of.
1) Nah...50 years ago, people were buying guns to "fight" the government (having them for the purpose of having to do that if they felt they needed to...which is silly, because the government can easily overwhelm any citizen). The NRA drives the mindset of gun owners in this country. That it is more prevalent now doesn't mean it wasn't a huge issue 50 years ago, and it is inaccurate to say that 50 years ago people were buying guns for hunting not to fight the government.
While there were armed anti-government groups prior to the 70's the NRA wasn't generally aligned with them.
It's not like the NRA was lobbying for the Black Panthers right to open carry in the late 60s. Quite the opposite actually.
I guess you did teach me something else, every mistake my generation made was caused by the generation before us.
So you don't have to take responsibility because it was my generations fault and my generation doesn't have to take responsibility because it was the fault of the generation before us.
I like it, we never have to be responsible for our own behavior. Its mom's & dad's fault. (I guess I always had foolish notions about what maturity meant.)
Maybe someday you will learn to read above a 5th grade level. Personally, I doubt it considering you have one foot in the grave already. When you live out your final, miserable years in some dingy retirement home, being ignored by your "loved" ones, if you have any, just remember that it is your fault.
On both sides of the aisle, the ability to agree to disagree has been lost. Too many view the other side as the enemy. People with different political views aren't just wrong, they are horrible human beings.
I will acknowledge some points on 1 but not at all on 2. On your 2nd point, I said "people" bought guns for hunting not to fight the government. What the NRA might have said does not reflect why the average person bought guns 50 years ago. Militias types and other antigovernment types buying guns is much much more prevalent now.
As far as my your 1st point, I said we valued equality more than equity. The quest for equity often comes at the price of equal treatment. Equity was a concept never even thought of 50 years ago. I didn't say we believed in equality more back than, I said we valued equality over equity more back than.
As far as number 3, you agree, but explain your thoughts on it.
1) Nah...50 years ago, people were buying guns to "fight" the government (having them for the purpose of having to do that if they felt they needed to...which is silly, because the government can easily overwhelm any citizen). The NRA drives the mindset of gun owners in this country. That it is more prevalent now doesn't mean it wasn't a huge issue 50 years ago, and it is inaccurate to say that 50 years ago people were buying guns for hunting not to fight the government.
2) No, we did not value equality in any way more than we do today. Just not true.
3) Ok, just so you know what you did there...you were taking the view of a white person and projecting that onto ALL people. THAT was wrong.
I have to call you out on this. I know you have good intellect but sometimes your stubborness can trump your intellect.
Lets start with your #2 point. This is what I actually posted, "We valued equality over equity." Is this true or not true? Of course its true we didn't really know what equity was back then. So yes we valued equality much much more equity. And, I didn't say we valued equality more then than now. Some today are really big on equity even if it means preferential selection for some groups. (This has worked against Asian Americans going to the Ivies)
As far as point 1, that is based more on my anecdotal experiential information. I knew many gun owners, I knew of no one who bought guns back then to fight off the government. I didn't even hear of the concept. But now it is quite common. Young fella, you are wrong on that one too. I was there.
As far as your point three, I will give you that one. But I will say disrespect for the police may have gone too far but that is subjective and I do agree with you that there are major problems to address.
1 out of three isn't that bad but you can do better.
I think it must be noted that there is a cognitive bias about the good ol days.
I get a fuzzy warm feeling when I think about the 80s, mix tapes, video rental stores, B Dalton Books, Sam Goody music, Tony Hawk skateboards, rollerblades, pogs, marbles, baseball card trading, vision street wear shoes, morey boogey, stussy, epitaph records, etc. I begin to look back at the good ol days. What I'm actually doing is remembering the positive memories and association while leaving out all the negative experiences. In reality, I was too young and ignorant to even understand all the negative things as I saw the world through the eyes of an innocent child. What does a little kid know about the Iran Contra scandal or the adult world?
There never was good ol days. There was innocence, and then it gets lost. This is still true today and was true 100 years ago.
While all of that sounds good and has some truth to it, it does not really tell the whole story.
Your closing summary, "There never was good ol days. There was innocence, and then it gets lost. This is still true today and was true 100 years ago." is cute but not necessarily accurate.
There is no reason to assume that life today is automatically as good as, or better than, life 20 years ago or 50 years ago or ... Just because people tend to have fond memories of their youth does not mean that things overall are getting better for people.
We valued equality over equity. Our goal was to give everyone an equal chance not to rig the system so all groups end up the same. We knew backgrounds were all different and that's just life.
We had real patriotism not fake patriotism. I see adults who call themselves "patriots" flying adulterated flags and sympathizing with those who attacked our capital to stop our election.
We believed in science and education. (We would have been shocked if we knew that 50 years after our first lunar landing we would be trying to land someone on the moon again....huh?) We respected scientists.
We believed in honesty. Our politicians at least pretended to be honest and didn't flaunt dishonestly in our faces. There would be no George Santos still in office.
Boys didn't play in girls sports.
Guns were bought for hunting, not to fight the government.
We respected the police.
We believed the United States was leader for democracy in the world. We knew our country wasn't perfect but we still had an important role in the world.
I agree about Santos, but would Biden and Warren still be in office since we're against lying about our education and heritage?
