USATF XC Champ - Men's Finish by Birth Country

Perhaps this will help, from the WCAP website:

"WCAP Soldiers also conduct essential outreach activities. They hold clinics, speak to high school and college audiences, talk with athletic teams and make appearances in support of Army recruiting stations. They become a training asset to the larger Army, too, through Total Soldier Enhancement Training (TSET), which sends Mobile Training Teams of WCAP Soldier-athletes to lead units through customized resilience and performance enhancement skills training."

There are currently six men in the WCAP Track & Field program. I assume this is not as large of a tax burden as you may imagine, as these soldiers are housed and train on active military bases.

Additionally, each of these men hold degrees from American colleges, and have served multiple years as active duty, full-time members of the US Army, not the "US Army" as you called it.

SSG Kosgei: 10 years active duty, combat medic
1LT Chelanga: 5 years, logistics officer
SSG Korir: 8 years, motor transport operator
SPC Keter: 7 years, unit supply specialist
SPC Rotich: 7 years, chemical equipment repairer
SPC Kipchumba: 4 years, army behavioral health specialist

These six Americans are kickass as they train and race in addition to their responsibilities as, again, full-time active duty members of the armed forces.

My understanding was that most of these guys were Guard or Reserves? I could be wrong.

Alan

Colleges don’t need to have good track teams. They need to provide good education

So you're saying the Army, with soldier-runners who came through at least four years of running on teams at US colleges and universities, is using something other than an American system for these runners' development? Okay, bizarro. This isn't at all akin to the Qatari or Bahraini systems where the athletes are based in training camps in Kenya despite alleged residence in those respective countries. The Army also didn't recruit or incentivize any runners out of Kenya or anywhere else, they were already living here on visas if not green cards when they spoke to recruiters. They were in the USA and wished to remain so, and this was their best path to remaining citizens in our nation. Did they really need to run under an off-season football or baseball coach and ride a school bus to the state meet for four years in high school to satisfy the small minds of LRBF? Friendly reminder: only a couple of these guys made WC or Olympic teams prior to making the team for Bathurst. None of them have Olympic medals, have any even won a single USA championship of note aside from the qualifier race for WXC?

Yes, East Africans are generally faster runners than Americans or Europeans. Does that mean we should deprive native born Americans or Europeans the chance to compete, in favor of specifically identified East Africans (i.e. those East Africans that have a demonstrated proclivity for running)? Note that native born Americans includes those of East African descent.

Can I try to find some middle ground on this issue?

I think most people agree that if you are willing to serve in our military and become a US citizen, then by all means, you should be allow to represent us as Americans on our national teams. I 100% agree with that. Citizens can run for their national teams. People need to stop whining about it. Alan is right.

But it is off-base when people act like there is "no difference" between a person who moves here as an adult (college-age or up) and an American-born runner who has lived in our (sedentary, fast-food, car-based) culture for 18 years and somehow goes on to succeed.

And this impacts who we identify with. I am 175 lbs., 6' tall, and grew up eating American food. I can relate to other Americans who are like me more. If you are Joseph Chebet and you weigh 118 lbs, stand 5'2 tall and were born at 7800' of elevation, I can't relate as much. It is not racist to say I don't relate to that. It isn't about skin color, it is about how we grew up.

For most of us, it isn't about race because we don't consider Pappas to be Greek, Parsons to be German, or Klosterhalfen to be American even if she were to get US citizenship. People like that are US citizens without being Americans. Does that make sense? You can get Italian citizenship without becoming Italian. Obviously.

p.s. My wife is a US citizen but doesn't think of herself as American because she didn't grow up here. There is a difference, and acknowledging that reality isn't "racist."

Your perspective is closer to that of the xenophobic and racist Japanese than to the ideal if not reality of the melting pot of America. The immigrant residents/citizens in the US I know tend to be harder workers than the native born Americans I know, they have more hustle. Even the educated and high-earning ones. That's the America I respect and embrace, not the America of coddled, entitled quiet quitters who fold at the very idea of structure, expectation, and accountability. The exact reason that we're talking about this group who qualified for Team USA? Let's be real about this, those with greater ability take this opportunity for granted. And they have coddling supporters who are quite happy to justify that choice. That's what fans should be unhappy about, not the obvious outcome of those sentiments. I don't know what to say about anyone who would rather have the team made up of even slower runners who finished behind these guys, so long as they're all lily white and speak polished English.

It's too bad all the nations giving citizenship to foreigners and allowing them to take the places of the natives. It takes a few generations for the line of people to become truly American or Dutch, etc. It is one of the problems out there. US tribal nations need to be allowed a real man and a real woman to represent them...

Emmanuel Bor is no longer in wcap and currently active duty in Arizona. He just graduated from office school in November and only trained 8 weeks for this xc.

For your information this soldiers can deploy anytime. CPT Elkana Kibet is currently deployed for 1hr. Rigth after world championship in Eugene.

1 year

This thread perfectly encapsulates the LetsRun ethos

I literally agree with everything you wrote. I am in favor of the WCAP program and knew the original coach (Dan Browne), who was always a super nice guy and great runner. I love what he did with his athletes. Hats off to these guys. I clearly stated that they should represent USA.

All I am saying I don't relate to their experience because it is nothing like my own. I am curious what could have been possible for athletes "like me." Humans are more interested in things we can identify with and relate to. We also like "outliers" and "exceptional superstars." That is why I follow and support all kinds of athletes.

That is not racist or xenophobic, that is just normal.

The USA has spent those same dollars.....and more, developing Americans. Has paid off some in the medal count for distance. 800, 1500, Steeplechase, 10K and Marathon....but can always be improved. World XC definitely not on the radar for most US runners as they need to get paid fees to run times indoor instead of XC. Been that way for quite some time.

I’m not interested in any runners from africa, you mad bro?

Ah, Fort Huachuca. Yep, a number of them have deployed.

I wonder if Michael Jordan (Steeplechaser) is still in the program. I don't seem him on the roster online. He came through our gas chamber at Fort Jackson in 2018.

Alan

Also, assuming you meant Officer Candidate School.

Alan

Yes officer candidates school

I talked to WCAP runner Michael Jordan about 18 months ago (2021) and he was a) awesome and b) motivated to go to the next level. He wasn't talking about "making the trials" anymore, he was talking about "winning the trials!" And in a post-Jager era, his 8:30 PR gave him hope that he could get to that next level. I loved his positive energy.

But he is 32 this year and sadly, I did not see many results from him last year. He must be injured. He missed all the Summer track season and didn't run a single steeple all year.

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