It’s a ballsy and awesome move. If you are targeting marathon greatness, might as well go to one of the wellsprings of greatness in that event. (Please everybody spare us any doping accusations). Will he be able to handle the austerity and the grind? Jerry trains athletes hard, but not Kipchoge style hard. That all remains to be seen. Living in that camp for extended periods is not for everybody, even the highly motivated. Anyway, I love that he’s going to do this and I hope it translates into major success, like sub 2:05 or even 2:04 success within a couple of years. 12:57 talent is great to have, but will it translate into equivalent marathon talent. EK of course would have been a sub 12:40 talent in super shoes….
There’s no legitimate reason why non-Africans/Japanese runners should languish at the marathon so much. The closest rationale you could say is the infatuation with track running until you are out of your prime. In fact, your stat is not true - what about Daniel do Nascimento? He ran 2:04:51. The fact that B level Americans/Europeans run 2:08-2:10:30 nowadays in fact signifies that the bigger talents should be hitting 2:04-2:07. It happens in Japan. It’s likely to happen with Mantz and Scott in my view. Not every runner translates but the early returns for Scott at the Half have been good.
Yes, I overlooked Di Nascimento. But that still only makes four non-Africans who have gone sub-2:06 compared to 151 African-born athletes.
That said, I agree that more Europeans and Americans should get there in the supershoe era. Too many good distance runners from those areas don't see the marathon as their calling, but just a way to extend their careers. The best example of what a top tier European talent can do by moving to the marathon early is Paula Radcliffe. Mantz is doing it right. There needs to be greater recognition that experience really matters in marathon running, it's not something athletes can dabble in. I think Mo Farah found this out which is why he never reached his potential in the event - he should easily have run 2:04-low and possibly 2:03 but he wasn't prepared to do the learning curve.
He is purposefully ignoring this thread because of the trend of Mo Farah, Max Burgin, Jess Judd, Marc Scott all go to Kenya to train with the best runners on the planet. Everyone understands it is not the dope which makes them fast (although many do dope). They simply are the most gifted runners on the planet, if you can't beat them join them.
There’s no legitimate reason why non-Africans/Japanese runners should languish at the marathon so much. The closest rationale you could say is the infatuation with track running until you are out of your prime. In fact, your stat is not true - what about Daniel do Nascimento? He ran 2:04:51. The fact that B level Americans/Europeans run 2:08-2:10:30 nowadays in fact signifies that the bigger talents should be hitting 2:04-2:07. It happens in Japan. It’s likely to happen with Mantz and Scott in my view. Not every runner translates but the early returns for Scott at the Half have been good.
Yes, I overlooked Di Nascimento. But that still only makes four non-Africans who have gone sub-2:06 compared to 151 African-born athletes.
That said, I agree that more Europeans and Americans should get there in the supershoe era. Too many good distance runners from those areas don't see the marathon as their calling, but just a way to extend their careers. The best example of what a top tier European talent can do by moving to the marathon early is Paula Radcliffe. Mantz is doing it right. There needs to be greater recognition that experience really matters in marathon running, it's not something athletes can dabble in. I think Mo Farah found this out which is why he never reached his potential in the event - he should easily have run 2:04-low and possibly 2:03 but he wasn't prepared to do the learning curve.
Galen Rupp is another example of someone who shoulda run faster. 2.06 PB.
Didn't Mo Farah run like 3:28 in the 1500m? That is tied for like 13th best in the world ever. I don't think Marc Scott has that kind of speed, sorry.
Someone else who doesn't know what speed is.
Where are you getting this from? He’s got a good kick but it isn’t anywhere near Farah. You seem to be the only one who sees this so I’d love to know what you’re actually basing it on
There’s no legitimate reason why non-Africans/Japanese runners should languish at the marathon so much. The closest rationale you could say is the infatuation with track running until you are out of your prime. In fact, your stat is not true - what about Daniel do Nascimento? He ran 2:04:51. The fact that B level Americans/Europeans run 2:08-2:10:30 nowadays in fact signifies that the bigger talents should be hitting 2:04-2:07. It happens in Japan. It’s likely to happen with Mantz and Scott in my view. Not every runner translates but the early returns for Scott at the Half have been good.
Yes, I overlooked Di Nascimento. But that still only makes four non-Africans who have gone sub-2:06 compared to 151 African-born athletes.
That said, I agree that more Europeans and Americans should get there in the supershoe era. Too many good distance runners from those areas don't see the marathon as their calling, but just a way to extend their careers. The best example of what a top tier European talent can do by moving to the marathon early is Paula Radcliffe. Mantz is doing it right. There needs to be greater recognition that experience really matters in marathon running, it's not something athletes can dabble in. I think Mo Farah found this out which is why he never reached his potential in the event - he should easily have run 2:04-low and possibly 2:03 but he wasn't prepared to do the learning curve.
I agree with both of you. I've been watching our sport since 1970ish. I started running myself in 1971 at 12 years old.
I used to see more guys gravitate to the roads at a younger age. They might have run the 10,000 in an Olympic year (not worlds back then).
Now, it seems that most are concentrating on the track, they're not top tier, make little money and move on. Maybe, like you said, they try to extend their career with the marathon but it's too late.
Some of these guys (and girls) have to come out of college and make money on the roads and run marathons sooner.
It seems that one benefit of the super shoes is recovery. I talked to one sub 2:30 woman who said she recovers faster and runs more marathons sooner since she's been wearing super shoes.
Where are you getting this from? He’s got a good kick but it isn’t anywhere near Farah. You seem to be the only one who sees this so I’d love to know what you’re actually basing it on
Yes, I overlooked Di Nascimento. But that still only makes four non-Africans who have gone sub-2:06 compared to 151 African-born athletes.
That said, I agree that more Europeans and Americans should get there in the supershoe era. Too many good distance runners from those areas don't see the marathon as their calling, but just a way to extend their careers. The best example of what a top tier European talent can do by moving to the marathon early is Paula Radcliffe. Mantz is doing it right. There needs to be greater recognition that experience really matters in marathon running, it's not something athletes can dabble in. I think Mo Farah found this out which is why he never reached his potential in the event - he should easily have run 2:04-low and possibly 2:03 but he wasn't prepared to do the learning curve.
I agree with both of you. I've been watching our sport since 1970ish. I started running myself in 1971 at 12 years old.
I used to see more guys gravitate to the roads at a younger age. They might have run the 10,000 in an Olympic year (not worlds back then).
Now, it seems that most are concentrating on the track, they're not top tier, make little money and move on. Maybe, like you said, they try to extend their career with the marathon but it's too late.
Some of these guys (and girls) have to come out of college and make money on the roads and run marathons sooner.
It seems that one benefit of the super shoes is recovery. I talked to one sub 2:30 woman who said she recovers faster and runs more marathons sooner since she's been wearing super shoes.
Exactly. Go through the top 50 all time list and you'll see that with the notable outliers of Kipchoge and Bekele, these guys usually start running marathons between the ages of 24 and 27. They're close to their physical peak and learning the event. Then they have a potential 7-8 years to try and compete at the top. Europeans and Americans move to the marathon when they're 30-32 and probably have 3-4 years maximum to race competitively, but also have to learn the event and harden themselves to the distinct challenges of marathon running. You can't do that and expect to be the best. There'll be the odd exception like Rupp, but even he hasn't fulfilled his potential - he easily has 2:05 talent, maybe better.
Do you not think most Olympic level distance runners could do that? Farah would close 10K’s in about 54/53, elite milers can run 56’s for 4 laps straight, there’s no way these people can’t run a 24 when only running a 200m
Do you not think most Olympic level distance runners could do that? Farah would close 10K’s in about 54/53, elite milers can run 56’s for 4 laps straight, there’s no way these people can’t run a 24 when only running a 200m
Mo closed a (slow) 5k in 50 high. In a 400m he could clearly run 49-50 (or faster), which translates remarkably well your vaunted 24.6. And 3:28 is a pretty good measure of “speed” in the context of the marathon.
Mo closed a (slow) 5k in 50 high. In a 400m he could clearly run 49-50 (or faster), which translates remarkably well your vaunted 24.6. And 3:28 is a pretty good measure of “speed” in the context of the marathon.
Stop being deliberately obtuse.
It doesn't work like that. This discussion has been going around and around here in the 20 years I've been posting.
Elite distance runners aren't 'fast' in real speed terms, around 8 meters per second or so. Mo is slightly quicker, Marc slightly quicker still.
What these guys have is superior speed endurance. Mo at his peak could run 50 for 400 but around 25.0 for 200, a shade under 13 for 100. He ran 1.48 for 800 when he was 19. So his 3.28 shouldn't have been a surprise for the man whose UK 1500 record he broke, Steve Cram. But Cram was incredulous, even though Mo told him before the race.