What do 50+ plus sprinters do for training?

(edit - ref post #36) A lot of this mirrors mine, though you warm up for a bit longer. I don't always perform drills in the same order, though I almost always start off with less intense drills focusing on the feet / ankles / lower leg and work up, so toe & heel walking, gentle pedalling, skipping, marching etc.

Once I have got most things warmed up (I am a bit lax with arms) I will generally do some high knee drills (Loren Seagrave hip-pop style) and then move onto stadium step-work: fast runs, hopping, drop downs.

This will be 35-40 minutes in. I will do a few 'strides' 30-40m at a reasonable pace and by now know whether I will be doing the session I had originally planned or if I need to use plan B/C or scratch.

Tony Holler makes some good points.

However, when he undermines heavy weights, he confuses me when he cites Nick Chubb's jumping abilities as Chubb also does extremely heavy weights, squats and cleans.

I am a bit confused by Holler's hypothesis? While i agree you do not need heavy weights if are doing a lot of other explosive work, there are plenty of top athletes who do heavy weights and are explosive.

He isn't against weights, in fact he works with football players who have to keep body mass. He just considers them as secondary to running and technical drills in sprint development.

Ten years ago, for reasons of convenience, I focused more on weights and in six months got my backsquat to over 2x my bodyweight. It made ZERO difference to my speed. I find drills, plyos, hills and top velocity work a far better use of my time and energy. OTOH as a rock climber I am spending 5-20 hours a week developing whole body strength, so that contributes, especially for the core strength and focus aspects. If you want to use a solid weight program to accomplish that, go for it. Just consider the bigger picture.

AthleteX (sprinting) and AthleanX(fitness) both have good youtube channels for reference material.

Yes, I agree about specificity and the logical importance of speed training.

But for myself, went I went down from 12.2 to 11.5 in a few years, getting stronger in the gym was important. But again, i knew most relevant indicator was my standing long which went from 2.50 to 2.80.

This period accompanied my weightlifting competition period.

Should have run faster given i was running 7.4 for 60m and my mate with similar 60m speed was running 11.2, but i tended to tighten up.

Again when i further improved my power to 3m standing long, my 100m and 200m improved to 11.2 and 22.5.

I like his videos, and the importance he gives to plyometric tests. he clearly states that power jumping tests are much more relevant to sprinting times.

I am serious about working on my speed and power come March 2023 when pentathlon season is over.

I went out and bought a freelap starter and cone. Might add another cone for flying 10-30m later.

Here is an "ultmate plyo" you might like:

I'm getting an idea of doing this with measurement for progression. Seems very relevant to the type of "springy" mechanics that us older athletes all tend to lose.

I wish the Freelap was less expensive, I am sure I would love working with it. I think there are phone apps that approximate it, but haven't really shopped it yet.

XY, yes three piece Freelap set cost me $675.

If I get an old man injury that puts me out forever, it will be a bad buy.

But after dwelling on whether to buy or not for a while, I could not help myself.

Tried it out last saturday, but i was so sore from monday and wednesday sessions, I could barely stride out. Ran a 15.4 100m after 3x60m and 3x100m.

XY, yes there are some interesting exercises that will help, as you provide.

At this time, i am thinking my core plyometric exercise will be single leg hops for distance over 20m.

I am thinking if i can improve this down to 10, rather than the present 12-13 for each legs, i can expect some substantial improvement as i also do the shorter sprints over 30-60m during the Winer and spring months.

But I will be more of the exercises suggested by you and others on this thread.

I will only do plyometrics once a week for my base period.

My best season ever, for a 12 month period, the only lower body exercise i did was sprinting and hopping up stairs.

I came back to gym and did my best ever squats first day 6x145kg, with my mate (a champion bodybuilder) commenting that it was the first time he had ever seen me squat three plates with such good form. Obviously bounding works, and doe snot need to be done later as the icing on the cake as some would suggest.

But as i am older, 61, i have to be careful with my knees. On third of lateral meniscus cut out 1999, but straight line stuff does not seem to cause any pain.

Since you are a real sprinter, not just a wannabe 400/800 like me, I think your Freelap investment is justified.

I hear you on protecting the old knees. I can't do single legged hops on my right leg due to lack of cartilage. Fortunately it doesn't bother me much running-wise, but it is a big part of my speed decline in my 50s. Fortunately that at least seems to have plateaued for a while, with lots of work and attention.

It looks like there aren't many sprinters or coaches of sprinters here to give us feedback, but rereading this thread, your comment of plyos once a week caught my eye.

Plyometrics are relatively low volume exercises. Some are very low impact, for example, stepping off a low step and doing a little hop immediately upon landing

I think Holler has his sprinters do some plyos almost every day. Shouldn't we be doing some plyos at least every other day? In my opinion... and I'd like some feedback on this... is that doing a LOT of plyos one day a week is higher risk of injury than doing a few plyos every day or at least every other day.

I do track workouts 3 days a week and plyos are a part of my warmup routine. I do stadium stairs followed by stadium stair skips, straight leg hops, A skips and then hard A skips, stomp march, boom boom boom, and 1 leg hops before every track workout. I find that the harder I do these drills, the better my workout is.

On alternate days when I go to Planet Fitness, I do traditional box jumps, split jump squats, dumbbell step ups with a hop band assisted jumps, split squat jumps and more. I'll admit that this workout really does beat me up the next day so I try to do it after my track workout on the same day. Some days, I'm just too tired to go to the gym after running.

Why wouldn't sprinters do some form of plyometrics at least every other day? Thoughts?

Hi Chris!

You have me VERY curious. With your age you mentioned, and these times you mentioned, you’d be #1 in the world, with NO ONE close. When did you achieve these amazing times?

I’d love to do an interview/documentary, etc!

Great training feedback!

I'm pretty sure he's referring to when he was 23-ish. Look at post #1. In post #1, he also says he ran 14.5 at age 61. That's not a competitive time at national level, but it's a good base to start from and it shows he still has some untapped speed potential at 61.

Oh thank you so much for clarifying!

I'm 25 and looking at getting back into sprinting. I saw mention of Tony Holler and him undermining heavy weights. But for me lifting heavy is still important to me. I.e.: I recently squatted 455lbs and I'm looking at getting to 500lbs by July. Is there a good program for someone who wants to do both? I saw sprintgeezers recommendation to a, b, c, d skips. I was already thinking about easing into it by doing those and wall foot turnover drills. The standing long jumps catch my eyes. My sprint coaches never emphasized those. We had box jumps but they aren't quite the same. Sorry to hijack the thread but it caught my eye.

Here's the problem with this thread: over-thinking.

Virtually nobody here is a sprint/power athlete. I know that by the tone of the discussion: WAY too much talk, analysis, labeling, guru-ism, etc.

On the one hand, I agree that sprinters/power athletes are born and not made. My experience in these events is predicated on my genetics--not just physical, but my genetic predisposition to a certain affect, or attitude, neither of which can be trained.

You know you are a sprinter/power athlete if you just can't help but "give it" when doing exercises. All these things mentioned are for people who aren't natural sprinters/power athletes (bear in mind that strength is different than power).

Sure I do strength stuff, like squats, deadlifts, leg press, bench, etc.--but I only do them to exercise neurology, that is, the ability to output as much stimulus as possible. I go heavy because that's what it takes, and I just can't help it. If I do 3 plates, I want to move to 3-1/2. So do big strength stuff, but make sure it's BIG for you, so make sure you do it with form that will keep you injury-free.

The power stuff is IMO more a question of stimulus, of mental arousal, than it is a question of muscular ability. Of course. When you're talking about things like plyos, box jumps, bounds, etc., you can learn to do them too slowly. Initially it's all about timing and anticipation, not about how high you can get, or doing it weighted, things like pulling a sled. Start with real wanker things, like box jumps only 18" high not 48", and work on the timing. It's like jumping rope for boxing. Timing is EVERYTHING, in sprints and jumps. Jav too. Shot is a mix of slow and quick.

When people talk about power, what they mean is quickness, responsiveness. If you can develop force more quickly, you can be more responsive, have better rise- and fall-time, have way better timing, and high-speed coordination. How do you get it? Live it. Feel the steps you are dancing up. Minimize contact time when going (skipping) down steps. Learn some dance moves from some kid. Do some trampoline or diving. Etc. All these things sound ridiculous and flaky, but working neurology without fatiguing it is no joke. You have to get used to being light and fast, while still being able to squat huge in the weight room when it counts.

The various "programs" mentioned, some of them try to work these concepts by developing or isolating movements and methods, so that training can be "optimized". Don't waste your time, this is not the situation where you are trying to go from 10.2 to 10.1, have a coaching staff to monitor, have massage, rehab, supps, have done at least a decade of serious training already, already have a sharp level of success, etc. Stick to what you can do all day, every day. Type faster, have your fingers dance across the keyboard. Do some high knees on the treadmill, keeping the thigh between vertical and horizontal, with zero backswing, just for form and timing. Jump rope, work on upper-lower body coordination. Play tag with an agile dog, trade paw slaps with a cat. Catch flies out of the air, with you hand, while making sure not to kill or injure them.

I'm not kidding. Don't concentrate so much on absolute force, rather think about concentrating that force into well-timed strikes, and you will learn incredible subtlety, where you can punch/counterpunch faster than someone, yet still end up giving them only a love tap.

Keep the big stuff going, and when the conditions permit, you can open up the tap more and more, and let it flow.

And do something totally different yet muscular, like swimming, cycling, rowing, etc.--good for cycling fluids through the muscles, active recovery, even if you go hard (but not super-hard, ie no "sprints" in these exercises).

It's not about becoming great, it's about becoming as good as you can get, with the amount of dedication that you want to offer. Whether or not what I've said means anything to you depends on who you are, and your start point. As with all things, YMMV. If you are basically a distance-type, then do whatever gets you jacked for more, without getting injured. NO INJURIES. It's key. You have to like what you're doing, understand it, and embrace it--and you can't do that if you're getting injured.

And stay clean, don't get sucked down the T drain. IMO staying natural makes you stay within an envelope where you are much less likely to have issues in the future.

Drink milk, eat grapefruit, have sex often, be game, appreciate humor. Live well, live free. Sprint to win!

Just pay attention to your knees, they often go on sprint/power athletes. Make sure your meniscus in particular is in good shape, you don't want some bucket-handle tear or something like that. Sit-squats and good form over 100m will go a long way to preserving your knees, IME.

455, nice, that was my max, raw, at 185 bodyweight. Down to 345 now, at 179 bw, and feeling good.

To others: THIS guy is what I'm talking about. He's at 455, and wants to get to 500 in summer. Why? Because he has the mentality needed. 455 is enough for anything, other than squatting more. It's there. He sees it. He feels it. He knows it. He needs it. He doesn't overthink it. He works hard, and it shows.

UH I would just start drills, working on form, quickness, timing, and especially release. Big weights take a lot of time in contraction, and that can't be transferred to the sprint, although you might be a monster off the blocks for the first 3 steps :)

Don't try to be "fast" in drills, try to be quick, using an explosion and glide. You will probably suck at first, but keep at it, and over time you will understand more what it is you are trying to achieve with the drills.

Oh, and in your case I would recommend doing some block work and accelerations to 10-20m, because you can. No serious load-bearing explosive stuff, but horizontal stuff ok. I am assuming your bw is up a bit relative to sprinters, based on that squat. Forget about the up/down, focus more on front/back, pawing the ground, taking off forwards.

Great stuff! Nice squat, let us know when you get the big 5

"Here's the problem with this thread: over-thinking."

(proceeds to write a novel)

I promise I'll read later...🤣

fisky, we probably should do plyos more regularly, but i really struggle to recover from high intensity stuff. Always have, but it is now even worse now i am older.

I think the moderate type of jumps can be done more regularly, but hops really take it out of me.

I am thinking, from March, two quality sessions a week with short sprints, one session with plyos and the other with sled. I will do different strength exercises on each day.

masterstube, no, i am slow now. They are my times from when i was 32 years at my peak.

i run about 14.5 now. check my results on World Masters rankings. Ran 15.0 first run on a very wet grass track.

I am aiming in a years time to break 14 and 28.5, but i am a long way from there at moment

sprintegeezer, thanks for comments/advice.

I am pretty relatistic. Never was naturally good. Little athletics. U/12s ran 15.3, 31 and 71 for three sprints.

Now i am similar at age 61 to when i was 11-12 years.

But from age 18, when running around 13 seconds with no contact with sport for five years, worked hard to get down to 11.2, 22.5, and 50.4 by age 32.

now i am aiming for a similar percentage of age records for 60-64 years group. I think that is a realistic aim, so I am hoping my body holds together.