Undefeated in XC. Undefeated in triathlon. 2 mile record without super shoes. Only kid to win NXN and Footlocker on same year. Won Footlocker b2b and as a sophomore. Won the 1 mile, 2 mile, and 5k at Nike Indoor Nationals as a Freshman! Triple champ (winning the 5k by over 40 seconds!).
Did I not list enough? How many more do you need?
He oblitered Cheserek several times during his tenure. Sub 4 mile without super shoes. Just a few months after graduating and ending his track season, he won the mf world championships in triathlon.
What a ridiculous piece of evidence you are using. Ritz looked like he was about to die at the end of his Footlocker race. But if you watch Lukas, he didn't kick and crossed the line comfortably with smooth form.
There are levels to this and Lukas was on another level fitness-wise than Ritz was.
I’m not here to debate how they looked. This is not a beauty pageant.
If you want to talk about levels, then look at what they did at higher levels the same year they finished high school. Ritz won a medal at the world junior cross country championships, finished 11th at the US track championships (ahead of collegians and professionals), and finished 4th at the NCAA cross country championships, helping his team win the national championship. Verzbicas won a junior triathlon title against inferior athletes than what Ritz faced at the world junior cross country championships, Verzbicas did not compete at the US track championships like Ritz did, and Verzbicas ran so poorly in NCAA cross country meets that he quit the sport and abandoned his teammates right before regionals.
You’re right, there are levels to this, and Verzbicas was on a lower level than Ritz.
Ritz in obviously has a better career after. But, LV’s 3:59 & 8:29 would’ve beaten Ritz’s best by 40m and 90m. Since we can’t compare cross country times, we can at least look at track times.
I’m not saying LV was better, I’m just saying it’s not clear who would’ve won.
Ritz in obviously has a better career after. But, LV’s 3:59 & 8:29 would’ve beaten Ritz’s best by 40m and 90m. Since we can’t compare cross country times, we can at least look at track times.
I’m not saying LV was better, I’m just saying it’s not clear who would’ve won.
I think that’s a fair assessment for the track (I’m convinced Ritz was untouchable in cross country). On the track, my “prediction” would be LV wins a mile race, Ritz wins at 5K, and a two-mile race would come down to the wire.
Although Verzbicas ran a much faster two-mile time, we have to remember their vastly different contexts. Verzbicas ran his time at the Prefontaine Classic and benefited from being pulled along by pros. In contrast, Ritz ran his time basically solo at the high school national championships, where, according to the race report below, he was 50 meters ahead of the field after the second lap. Ritz had also focused on longer distance training that spring as part of his preparation to run nearly 8k cross country at world juniors and the 5k at the US championships. Put him in that same Prefontaine race as Verzbicas with a couple weeks of speed training in him, and it’s possible Ritz could have run 8:29 too.
What a ridiculous piece of evidence you are using. Ritz looked like he was about to die at the end of his Footlocker race. But if you watch Lukas, he didn't kick and crossed the line comfortably with smooth form.
There are levels to this and Lukas was on another level fitness-wise than Ritz was.
I’m not here to debate how they looked. This is not a beauty pageant.
If you want to talk about levels, then look at what they did at higher levels the same year they finished high school. Ritz won a medal at the world junior cross country championships, finished 11th at the US track championships (ahead of collegians and professionals), and finished 4th at the NCAA cross country championships, helping his team win the national championship. Verzbicas won a junior triathlon title against inferior athletes than what Ritz faced at the world junior cross country championships, Verzbicas did not compete at the US track championships like Ritz did, and Verzbicas ran so poorly in NCAA cross country meets that he quit the sport and abandoned his teammates right before regionals.
You’re right, there are levels to this, and Verzbicas was on a lower level than Ritz.
Your entire post was about what they did after high school, you completely changed topic. I didn't think I needed to clarify the original post, but it was clearly about High school.
Are you completely unaware that Lukas had a career ending injury before what would have been the end of his freshman year of college, had he not dropped out?
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only guy to win both NXN and FL plus he won FL b2b which is dope
Lukas beat Mathew Mcleroy and Wade Mettles, Ritz beat Alan Webb and Ryan Hall. I'd say Ritz had more competition.
Why did you specifically name 2 people nobody has heard of?
He beat Craig Lutz, 2 time Texas state champ who also set the state record. He beat Futsum Zeinasellassie, who I believe has the record for largest margin of victory at NXN and also set the state record in XC and 3200. He beat Edward Cheserek, ever heard of him? Did I mention he beat Lutz, because he actually beat him twice, NXN and FL.
I’m not here to debate how they looked. This is not a beauty pageant.
If you want to talk about levels, then look at what they did at higher levels the same year they finished high school. Ritz won a medal at the world junior cross country championships, finished 11th at the US track championships (ahead of collegians and professionals), and finished 4th at the NCAA cross country championships, helping his team win the national championship. Verzbicas won a junior triathlon title against inferior athletes than what Ritz faced at the world junior cross country championships, Verzbicas did not compete at the US track championships like Ritz did, and Verzbicas ran so poorly in NCAA cross country meets that he quit the sport and abandoned his teammates right before regionals.
You’re right, there are levels to this, and Verzbicas was on a lower level than Ritz.
Your entire post was about what they did after high school, you completely changed topic. I didn't think I needed to clarify the original post, but it was clearly about High school.
Are you completely unaware that Lukas had a career ending injury before what would have been the end of his freshman year of college, had he not dropped out?
That’s incorrect. Ritz won his world junior cross country championship medal in March of his senior year in high school. That single accomplishment is superior to anything that Verzbicas did while in high school.
Not sure why you brought up Verzbicas’ injury. I was only talking about things they did during the calendar year that they finished high school.
Why did you specifically name 2 people nobody has heard of?
He beat Craig Lutz, 2 time Texas state champ who also set the state record. He beat Futsum Zeinasellassie, who I believe has the record for largest margin of victory at NXN and also set the state record in XC and 3200. He beat Edward Cheserek, ever heard of him? Did I mention he beat Lutz, because he actually beat him twice, NXN and FL.
You conveniently left out the fact that Cheserek was just a sophomore when Verzbicas beat him, and Futsum was a junior. Are you really praising him for beating underclassmen?? Lutz was a good runner in his senior year but he was not an all-time great at the national level. What’s more impressive: beating sophomore Cheserek by two measly seconds and junior Futsum by 11 seconds, or beating senior Webb and senior Hall by 20 seconds?
Lukas beat Mathew Mcleroy and Wade Mettles, Ritz beat Alan Webb and Ryan Hall. I'd say Ritz had more competition.
Why did you specifically name 2 people nobody has heard of?
He beat Craig Lutz, 2 time Texas state champ who also set the state record. He beat Futsum Zeinasellassie, who I believe has the record for largest margin of victory at NXN and also set the state record in XC and 3200. He beat Edward Cheserek, ever heard of him? Did I mention he beat Lutz, because he actually beat him twice, NXN and FL.
Exactly, Lukas raced much inferior competition, of course he looked good winning. Mcelroy and Mettles came in 2nd and 3rd that year. Lutz was no stud then. Ritz on the other hand broke two legendary runners on his way to his 2nd victory. Ritz didnt have the benefit of racing NXN and the other great HS runners I brought up had neither footlocker or NXN.
Lukas was great but I'm going with the HSer who broke Tegenkamp, a collegian, and some of the finest Ethiopians and Kenyans in the mud in Oostende, Belgium.
Your entire post was about what they did after high school, you completely changed topic. I didn't think I needed to clarify the original post, but it was clearly about High school.
Are you completely unaware that Lukas had a career ending injury before what would have been the end of his freshman year of college, had he not dropped out?
That’s incorrect. Ritz won his world junior cross country championship medal in March of his senior year in high school. That single accomplishment is superior to anything that Verzbicas did while in high school.
Not sure why you brought up Verzbicas’ injury. I was only talking about things they did during the calendar year that they finished high school.
The accomplishment might be ranked higher than LV’s. But it doesn’t make him better. LV didn’t run WJXC so there is no apples to apples.
Zero chance Ritz beats LV in a 2 mile. Ritz might not be top 10 in a hypothetical all time 2 mile race.
1. Webb probably wins 3:53 mile
2. GF or LV 8:34 solo windy / 8:29 record
3. GF or LV see above
4. Hobbs Kessler 8:39 basically jogging; 25s last 200
5. Gerry Lindgren 8:40 indoors
6. Sahlman 8:33 3200m
7. Nico Young 7:56 3k
8. Rupp 13:37 5k
9. Drew Hunter 7:57 3k
10. Lex Young 7:57 3k / 13:43 5k
11. Jeff Nelson 8:36
12. Centro 8:41 with 2:00 last 800m
13. Pre 8:41
14. Chez 8:39 indoor
At a minimum, I’d bet on all these guys to beat Ritz in a 2 mile. Most of them comfortably.
I’m not here to debate how they looked. This is not a beauty pageant.
If you want to talk about levels, then look at what they did at higher levels the same year they finished high school. Ritz won a medal at the world junior cross country championships, finished 11th at the US track championships (ahead of collegians and professionals), and finished 4th at the NCAA cross country championships, helping his team win the national championship. Verzbicas won a junior triathlon title against inferior athletes than what Ritz faced at the world junior cross country championships, Verzbicas did not compete at the US track championships like Ritz did, and Verzbicas ran so poorly in NCAA cross country meets that he quit the sport and abandoned his teammates right before regionals.
You’re right, there are levels to this, and Verzbicas was on a lower level than Ritz.
After Lukas V. won the World Jr. Tri title, NCAA XC seemed like small beans and he wanted to focus on that, he also stated bluntly that he'd seen what the Ritz and the other top Americans of time had amounted to on the world stage and realized there was more future in the tri. Lukas V. wasn't wrong, he was just unlucky, but he'd been fully committed to running, he'd probably have surpassed Ritz's career, maybe he'd been as successful or more than Galen Rupp (Rupp > Ritz, btw, obviously).
I’m not here to debate how they looked. This is not a beauty pageant.
If you want to talk about levels, then look at what they did at higher levels the same year they finished high school. Ritz won a medal at the world junior cross country championships, finished 11th at the US track championships (ahead of collegians and professionals), and finished 4th at the NCAA cross country championships, helping his team win the national championship. Verzbicas won a junior triathlon title against inferior athletes than what Ritz faced at the world junior cross country championships, Verzbicas did not compete at the US track championships like Ritz did, and Verzbicas ran so poorly in NCAA cross country meets that he quit the sport and abandoned his teammates right before regionals.
You’re right, there are levels to this, and Verzbicas was on a lower level than Ritz.
After Lukas V. won the World Jr. Tri title, NCAA XC seemed like small beans and he wanted to focus on that, he also stated bluntly that he'd seen what the Ritz and the other top Americans of time had amounted to on the world stage and realized there was more future in the tri. Lukas V. wasn't wrong, he was just unlucky, but he'd been fully committed to running, he'd probably have surpassed Ritz's career, maybe he'd been as successful or more than Galen Rupp (Rupp > Ritz, btw, obviously).
After Lukas V. won the World Jr. Tri title, NCAA XC seemed like small beans and he wanted to focus on that, he also stated bluntly that he'd seen what the Ritz and the other top Americans of time had amounted to on the world stage and realized there was more future in the tri. Lukas V. wasn't wrong, he was just unlucky, but he'd been fully committed to running, he'd probably have surpassed Ritz's career, maybe he'd been as successful or more than Galen Rupp (Rupp > Ritz, btw, obviously).
You’re leaving out the part where his colossal failures in cross country during his first fall in Eugene convinced him that he was better suited for triathlon. From the article linked on his Wikipedia profile:
“Verzbicas began to think seriously about leaving after the Oct. 29 Pac-12 Championships, where he was the fourth Oregon finisher and 23rd overall.”
Who was better: the guy who finished 4th in the entire NCAA his freshman year, or the guy who was only 4th on his team?