Until WADA can find a way to get ahead of doping, banning Kenyans only weakens meets/races. We have seen no proof that WADA, USADA or other governing bodies can stop the flood- why punish a single country as if they're the only country with rampant doping protocols?
It's also unclear if this is state sponsored ala Russia
It's in every country- the Kenyans are just a combination of better at running and at doping. Mods, feel free to remove this, but it's truth
Hi shill number 371. There is no proof that other countries are doping like Kenya. There is proof, however, that there is a rampant doping culture in Kenya. 250+ doping busts demonstrate that. Again, no evidence presented that Kenyans are 'better at running and at doping'.
There is a rampant doping culture in elite athletics. It has nothing to do with nationality.
Hi shill number 371. There is no proof that other countries are doping like Kenya. There is proof, however, that there is a rampant doping culture in Kenya. 250+ doping busts demonstrate that. Again, no evidence presented that Kenyans are 'better at running and at doping'.
There is a rampant doping culture in elite athletics. It has nothing to do with nationality.
So provide some evidence. You think World Athletics should ignore 250+ doping busts from one country, over 55 suspensions in this year alone, just because some random anonymous shills on a running forum say there is equal doping everywhere despite manifestly far greater financial incentives and opportunities to dope in certain regions?
That Kenyan runners are busted could be seen as evidence that some of their officials/institutions are at least trying to bring it under control. When was e.g. the last Ethiopian, Ugandan, Eritrean busted? These countries are mostly poorer and less developed than Kenya, two are involved in (civil) wars etc. I simply cannot believe that there is less doping in any of the three mentioned (and many others), just that control is even worse than Kenya.
Ban is the only solution - they are not trying to curb doping. Outside forces are trying and mostly failing , 55 is the tip of the berg. If you think Ethiopia and Uganda are better keep drinking the cool aid. AIU needs to do something otherwise, they remain in the Diack corruption era
There is a rampant doping culture in elite athletics. It has nothing to do with nationality.
So provide some evidence. You think World Athletics should ignore 250+ doping busts from one country, over 55 suspensions in this year alone, just because some random anonymous shills on a running forum say there is equal doping everywhere despite manifestly far greater financial incentives and opportunities to dope in certain regions?
Kenya having more doping busts than other countries doesn't prove that more of their athletes are doping, just that more of them are getting caught. We already know that national anti-doping agencies are willing to bury their own athletes' positive tests, never mind the fact that the only people who ever get caught are the careless idiots. None of this is unique to Kenya or East Africa.
It is easy to understand the reasons for banning Russia's ARAF and RUSADA for breaching their duties and obligations. (Although it could be reasonably argued at that time, that the IAAF should also ban itself.)
These bans do harm any innocent Russian athletes, but this was mitigated by permitting Russians to compete under neutral colors, providing they meet the criteria.
Despite the seemingly high number of absolute bans resulting from increased testing, there is no similar reasoning to justify banning AK, AKAD, or Kenya as a nation. Like the Russians, any blanket ban should offer a way for clean Kenyans to compete by "proving" their eligibility with testing -- but then I don't see how that is different than placing Kenya in Category A today.
I would be extremely surprised if the country was banned. For one Eliud Kipchoge is just too good for the sport and having him barred as part of it would just be too much of a loss for the world athletics community for that to ever happen.
I totally disagree with a ban for an entire nation for any reason, including Russia's bans for drugs and the Ukraine War. When you blanket ban an entire country, you are inevitably banning athletes who have done absolutely nothing wrong. We need to get more aggressive in going after the guilty athletes. Personally, I believe a lifetime ban for the first offense would make a lot of people think twice about using PEDs. You would risk your entire career due to one bad decision and I think most would consider it a risk that they are not willing to take.
I completely agree. We're way too lenient on individual dopers and way too heavy-handed on athletes who've done nothing wrong and have no affiliation with said dopers, other than happening to be born in the same part of the world.
We need lifetime bans, legal action to recoup all prize-money, and blacklisting of agents and coaches associated with multiple dopers.
Kenya does seem to throw up additional complications, however, as, for the moment, it appears Kenyan officials are unable to reliably administer out-of-competition drug testing; whether it's through corruption or lack of resources.
I'm not sure how you can fix a broken organisation without the threat of obsolescence, but I hope World Athletics comes up with a way to incentivise officials to do their job, because the alternative seems incredibly unjust.
From what I've been reading, Kenya have been given a reprieve. There may, however, be sanctions against particular camps and coaches.
Source? Other people were saying it's a done deal they'll be banned. Seemed to be that some of the busts will be so high profile that it can't be ignored.
Kenya having more doping busts than other countries doesn't prove that more of their athletes are doping, just that more of them are getting caught. We already know that national anti-doping agencies are willing to bury their own athletes' positive tests, never mind the fact that the only people who ever get caught are the careless idiots. None of this is unique to Kenya or East Africa.
That sounds like some 'El K' style, 'Bus loads of positives from Kenya only goes to prove how clean Kenya is and how dirty other countries actually are' type nonsense to me.
Despite testing improving for Kenyan athletes a bit, they're still not as widely tested as most other countries. All these positives kinda indicate it's the tip of a rather large iceberg.
Although I do agree that the rampantly dirty Ethiopians will be laughing at all this. Their doping is fully state sanctioned and manage to completely control as and when outside testers can enter the country and have access to the athletes. It's little wonder none ever get caught.
Kenya having more doping busts than other countries doesn't prove that more of their athletes are doping, just that more of them are getting caught. We already know that national anti-doping agencies are willing to bury their own athletes' positive tests, never mind the fact that the only people who ever get caught are the careless idiots. None of this is unique to Kenya or East Africa.
That sounds like some 'El K' style, 'Bus loads of positives from Kenya only goes to prove how clean Kenya is and how dirty other countries actually are' type nonsense to me.
Despite testing improving for Kenyan athletes a bit, they're still not as widely tested as most other countries. All these positives kinda indicate it's the tip of a rather large iceberg.
Although I do agree that the rampantly dirty Ethiopians will be laughing at all this. Their doping is fully state sanctioned and manage to completely control as and when outside testers can enter the country and have access to the athletes. It's little wonder none ever get caught.
Its such a dumb argument too because its not even their own doping agency catching them. Almost all of the busts are from the AIU, which tests runners from every country. Im so sick of the doping apologism every time Kenya is brought up where people act like somehow they are being railroaded when 15 distance runners are busted over a 3 month span. Other countries wouldn't even be allowed to get to 1/3 this amount before getting a ban
Unsure how that makes me a shill- but the proof is in any major marathon or DL distance race. Literally look at the results. Clean Kenyans are better than clean Americans and dirty Kenyans are better than dirty Americans (and most clean)
Russia was banned because the state sponsored the doping. Kenya appears to be allowing it, but not necessarily sponsoring it. Not that there is a big difference, but if Kenya is able to crack down on the doping, they may avoid suspension.
Unsure how that makes me a shill- but the proof is in any major marathon or DL distance race. Literally look at the results. Clean Kenyans are better than clean Americans and dirty Kenyans are better than dirty Americans (and most clean)
I totally disagree with a ban for an entire nation for any reason, including Russia's bans for drugs and the Ukraine War. When you blanket ban an entire country, you are inevitably banning athletes who have done absolutely nothing wrong. We need to get more aggressive in going after the guilty athletes. Personally, I believe a lifetime ban for the first offense would make a lot of people think twice about using PEDs. You would risk your entire career due to one bad decision and I think most would consider it a risk that they are not willing to take.
It's a good question and your POV is fundamentally sound, but where it gets tough is when you systemic and institutionalized regimes in place that plan and administer drugs to athletes (like we are basically certain happens/ed in Russia). Because how do you deal with this then? You just ban the athletes caught even and let the national body just get away with things? Even murkier when I would guess a lot of the Russian athletes would rather not cheat but get essentially forced to or not considered for national teams etc.
On the flipside I don't think this is the case in Kenya. I don't believe it's anything sophisticated and systemic like Russia is - more a case of a large, let's be honest here, underdeveloped country where I guess regulation of anything is hard let alone athletes and PEDS. I don't think the Kenyan NOC really cares that much to crack down on things (mostly because it's an impossible task), but at the same time I don't think they are actively involved in creating this issue (like Russia). So this is where I agree with you that a full expulsion is a little too much.
I do agree that life bans or even the threat of are the next and only logical step. Not sure how we haven't evolved to this yet to be honest. But I do think sanctions on a national federation level need to exist for countries known to be institutional in their approach to athlete doping.