I've been attending the Champs/Eastbay/Footlocker Northeast meet since 2016. This year was pitiful. There was no buzz or excitement like all the past years. I counted twelve team tents and two of them were mine.
Low numbers in every race. I think the championship boys only had about 170 starters. The top 3-4 in the championship races were legit but I don't think the rest of them have much of a chance in San Diego.
They also didn't have an awards ceremony after each race like they used to. Everyone was just waiting around the awards tent for thirty minutes until you could pick up your medal.
The course is barely decorated. And would it kill them to have some tangent lines drawn to help the runners in the opening mile before they go into the woods? Every race started off slightly in the wrong direction because you can't see the first turn from the start. They should have the course lined with banners to help direct the runners.
They also randomly put a clock on the course at the entrance to the woods. Alot of people thought it was the first mile mark. It wasn't a mark for any distance in particular.
This isn't coming from someone who's never been to VCP. My kids race there 3-4 times every year so we know our way around the course but for people who only come there for one race it has to be hugely disappointing.
Just To many races to close together and one has to die, By looking at running lanes numbers its not that one!
With 13 post season “national” meets between 8 NXR, 4 Champs, and RL, using last year’s RL and Eastbay west numbers and this year’s numbers for the rest, RL ranks 6th in size. NXR heartland is the biggest by a good margin. NXR NE, NY, SE and Champs S, NE and MW are all head scratching small.
My wild guess theory on the six smallest is that it is just too late in the year. But I haven’t gone back to look up data on the last decade to see if this was always a pattern.
Just To many races to close together and one has to die, By looking at running lanes numbers its not that one!
With 13 post season “national” meets between 8 NXR, 4 Champs, and RL, using last year’s RL and Eastbay west numbers and this year’s numbers for the rest, RL ranks 6th in size. NXR heartland is the biggest by a good margin. NXR NE, NY, SE and Champs S, NE and MW are all head scratching small.
My wild guess theory on the six smallest is that it is just too late in the year. But I haven’t gone back to look up data on the last decade to see if this was always a pattern.
3 of the Footlockers were always held the Saturday after Thanksgiving with the west meet the following Saturday.
Regarding NY, they have a state meet that does not include the NYC public, private/prep and catholic schools. The federation meet held the following week includes the winners of that meet (some teams never go to the fed mert) and the NYC teams and Catholic school teams. They should scrap the federation meet and allow the city public, private, and Catholic schools to take part in the state meet. This would allow for the NXN and Footlocker/Champs meets to be held on different days.
I've been attending the Champs/Eastbay/Footlocker Northeast meet since 2016. This year was pitiful. There was no buzz or excitement like all the past years. I counted twelve team tents and two of them were mine.
Low numbers in every race. I think the championship boys only had about 170 starters. The top 3-4 in the championship races were legit but I don't think the rest of them have much of a chance in San Diego.
They also didn't have an awards ceremony after each race like they used to. Everyone was just waiting around the awards tent for thirty minutes until you could pick up your medal.
The course is barely decorated. And would it kill them to have some tangent lines drawn to help the runners in the opening mile before they go into the woods? Every race started off slightly in the wrong direction because you can't see the first turn from the start. They should have the course lined with banners to help direct the runners.
They also randomly put a clock on the course at the entrance to the woods. Alot of people thought it was the first mile mark. It wasn't a mark for any distance in particular.
This isn't coming from someone who's never been to VCP. My kids race there 3-4 times every year so we know our way around the course but for people who only come there for one race it has to be hugely disappointing.
first of all, VCP with all its history and nostalgia, is a terrible place to run an event for many reasons... parking, spectator appeal, bathrooms....on and on. but more importantly, FL or whatever they call it nowadays is an individual only event while we all know that XC is the ultimate team sport. Maybe that is why FL is dying and the numbers are ridiculously low..
Okay...I had not heard much about this event that occured yesterday, and even less about any the prior weekend. Champs definitely need to up their advertising budget and clean up the Foot Locker/Eastbay mess.
Okay...I had not heard much about this event that occured yesterday, and even less about any the prior weekend. Champs definitely need to up their advertising budget and clean up the Foot Locker/Eastbay mess.
Tbf, Champs and Eastbay are owned by Foot Locker so it’s all Foot Locker mess
With 13 post season “national” meets between 8 NXR, 4 Champs, and RL, using last year’s RL and Eastbay west numbers and this year’s numbers for the rest, RL ranks 6th in size. NXR heartland is the biggest by a good margin. NXR NE, NY, SE and Champs S, NE and MW are all head scratching small.
My wild guess theory on the six smallest is that it is just too late in the year. But I haven’t gone back to look up data on the last decade to see if this was always a pattern.
3 of the Footlockers were always held the Saturday after Thanksgiving with the west meet the following Saturday.
Regarding NY, they have a state meet that does not include the NYC public, private/prep and catholic schools. The federation meet held the following week includes the winners of that meet (some teams never go to the fed mert) and the NYC teams and Catholic school teams. They should scrap the federation meet and allow the city public, private, and Catholic schools to take part in the state meet. This would allow for the NXN and Footlocker/Champs meets to be held on different days.
Problem is that each of those (NYSPHSAA, CHSAA, PSAL and AIS) are independent entities. They conduct their own championship meets at the same time, so you’d be asking the other three organizations to forgo their own championship meets to roll under the one held by the NYPHSAA. That’s not going to happen, nor should it. Other ways to potentially smooth some of this out, but that’s not one of them.
3 of the Footlockers were always held the Saturday after Thanksgiving with the west meet the following Saturday.
Regarding NY, they have a state meet that does not include the NYC public, private/prep and catholic schools. The federation meet held the following week includes the winners of that meet (some teams never go to the fed mert) and the NYC teams and Catholic school teams. They should scrap the federation meet and allow the city public, private, and Catholic schools to take part in the state meet. This would allow for the NXN and Footlocker/Champs meets to be held on different days.
Problem is that each of those (NYSPHSAA, CHSAA, PSAL and AIS) are independent entities. They conduct their own championship meets at the same time, so you’d be asking the other three organizations to forgo their own championship meets to roll under the one held by the NYPHSAA. That’s not going to happen, nor should it. Other ways to potentially smooth some of this out, but that’s not one of them.
Why do these independent entities hold their meet the same day? If they didn't would they be invited to the NYPHSAA? Why were they never given membership? This year the PSAL meet and the AIS meet were a week before the state meet. They don't have to forgo their own championship after all.
Wouldn't it be possible in 2022 to just have 1 state meet and include the city teams?
Problem is that each of those (NYSPHSAA, CHSAA, PSAL and AIS) are independent entities. They conduct their own championship meets at the same time, so you’d be asking the other three organizations to forgo their own championship meets to roll under the one held by the NYPHSAA. That’s not going to happen, nor should it. Other ways to potentially smooth some of this out, but that’s not one of them.
Why do these independent entities hold their meet the same day? If they didn't would they be invited to the NYPHSAA? Why were they never given membership? This year the PSAL meet and the AIS meet were a week before the state meet. They don't have to forgo their own championship after all.
Wouldn't it be possible in 2022 to just have 1 state meet and include the city teams?
The independent entities all call their meets the "State Championships" for their organization (NYPHSAA crown a state champ in each of the individual divisions, A,B,C,D, based on size, CHSAA crowns a Catholics State champion etc). These races are the qualifier for the Federation's which is public, private and catholic schools all racing together. So the "Feds" is the true stat championship. The rest is all semantics and confusion.
What people fail to forget is that many of these state and city associations have held their meets on the same weekend for decades. These associations don't owe Nike, or champs, or anyone else anything. I'm sick of all the Nike homers coming on these boards acting like the sport should just do whatever Nike wants.
What people fail to forget is that many of these state and city associations have held their meets on the same weekend for decades. These associations don't owe Nike, or champs, or anyone else anything. I'm sick of all the Nike homers coming on these boards acting like the sport should just do whatever Nike wants.
And it needs to change. NYSPHSAA should have their state meet the last weekend of October. Better chance of decent weather and it shortens a way too long New York season.
Why do these independent entities hold their meet the same day? If they didn't would they be invited to the NYPHSAA? Why were they never given membership?
Maybe because it's the New York PUBLIC High School Athletic Association? Just a thought...
The separation of the NYPSHSAA and the Federations meet is silly. About as silly as having two national championships.
Sillier is the separation of the Federation and NXR meet. NYSPHSAA and the Federation are separate entities, and it makes sense to have a separate public school championship and catholic/private school championships. This is how it's done in the vast majority of states. The problem is really that there are two NY-only championships meets held in back-to-back weekends on the same course, with the same teams eligible for both. If the Federation and Nike could come to an agreement and combine Federations and NXR, it would solve basically all of these problems.
The separation of the NYPSHSAA and the Federations meet is silly. About as silly as having two national championships.
Sillier is the separation of the Federation and NXR meet. NYSPHSAA and the Federation are separate entities, and it makes sense to have a separate public school championship and catholic/private school championships. This is how it's done in the vast majority of states. The problem is really that there are two NY-only championships meets held in back-to-back weekends on the same course, with the same teams eligible for both. If the Federation and Nike could come to an agreement and combine Federations and NXR, it would solve basically all of these problems.
When would this be held? In this scenario when would the NXR Northeast race be held? The same day as NXR NY meet? The week before Thanksgiving or the Thanksgiving Saturday?
That proposal was presented to the NY Feds many years ago and rejected for a number of good reasons….still Nike helps sponsor the Fed meet…
I am not sure why kids still attend FL or whatever they call it this year over NXR ..ask anyone who has been to both….they do not go back to VCP…
FL, at one time a great event, has run its course….all good things do come to an end.
FL seems to be alive and well in the West region and in drawing a reasonable number of elites elsewhere. There just seems to be too many other racing options for the thousands of other kids east of Utah who have no shot at the national meet.
