An argument against icing injuries and using anti-inflammatory drugs

may i recommend that anyone interested in the topic read "Why We Get Sick" by Raldolph M. Nesse, M.D, and George C. Williams, Ph.D.

Evolutionary biology seems to have a lot of good answers, and the author of the book repeatedly stress that often we treat our body's defense mechanism. Eg. giving tylenol to someone with a fever has been found to make the infection last longer (fever is fighting the infection) and high levels of iron cause infection (the body has evolved to survive on little iron bc bacteria need iron. Interestingly, human milk binds to iron much more, and so babies milked from cows milk have been found to have higher rates of infection.

aside from that aside, the authors also stress that there's a difference between teh body's defense mechanism (e.g. fever) and manifestations of a diesease (e.g. skin turning blue after pneumonia) and that treating the manifestations is positive.

An example of the difference occurs when you have a cold. Your body produces excess mucus, and many people take medicine to reduce the mucus (e.g. Afrin). The question is: is increased mucus just a manifestation of the disease or is the increase a defense mechanism to lower the amount of bacteria that enter through the nose?

So...is the swelling the body's defense mechanism or is it a side effect.

I personally believe that taking advil for the pain is very destructive because it will lead you to use the leg/joing/muscle before it is ready for full use. People don't listen to their body telling them to not use the leg so that the pulled muscle can heal because they take advil, and thus dont allow the muscle time to heal.

Good points, both of you. I'll definitely consider this.

I agree with you on anti-inflammatory drugs. But I think ice must have some other effect -- when I jump on little pains with ice, they go away and don't bother me again. When I don't, they sometimes develop into bigger pains and force me to take time off.

ice reduces inflammation by increasing blood flow to the area, enhancing the body's natural reaction. as such, i would consider icing to be a valid methodology in fighting minor injuries incurred by running.

No.

If you use anti-inflamitories to mask pain, then you are correct.

Ice is used to reduce inflammation, which helps in the healing process, basically, it is helping your body recover.

By following your advice, most runners I know would be running about 1 to 2 days per year.

... and would need to quit after age 26.

Hmmmmm wrote:

By following your advice, most runners I know would be running about 1 to 2 days per year.

Looks like a cut and paste job--marijuologist usually swears a lot more... Also looks like someone is in love with the word "modalities".

But anyway, regardless of the author, have you any appropriate training, credentials or hard evidence to back up this opinion?

yea man wtf. thats a dumb theory. go shit on a stick.

you needa get ridda inflamation so you can get healthy... ice and anti-inflamitories just speed up the process.

Pain is a part of the game when you're a baller.

the white kenyan wrote:

ice reduces inflammation by increasing blood flow to the area, enhancing the body's natural reaction. as such, i would consider icing to be a valid methodology in fighting minor injuries incurred by running.

Actually, just the opposite is true: ice reduces inflammation by decreasing local blood flow!

iflyboats wrote:

the white kenyan wrote:

ice reduces inflammation by increasing blood flow to the area, enhancing the body's natural reaction. as such, i would consider icing to be a valid methodology in fighting minor injuries incurred by running.

Actually, just the opposite is true: ice reduces inflammation by decreasing local blood flow!

Notice what happens after you ice, though -- blood rushes to the area to warm it back up. Maybe this helps healing.

Based on my experience, I'm sure that ice helps prevent injury. If reducing inflammation isn't why, then there must be another reason why.

Are you Kevin Trudeau? wrote:

Looks like a cut and paste job--marijuologist usually swears a lot more... Also looks like someone is in love with the word "modalities".

Exactly. That word in particular is a tipoff. It means you're dealing with a pseudo-intellectual who desperately wishes to sound smarter than they are. Much like "paradigm"

I did a quick search and saw this quote from marijuologist himself--someone who clearly doesn't take his own advice! (and to the earlier poster, this IS a cut and paste--profanity and grammar all courtesy of Modality, err, Marijuologist)

"You're an idiot. And just because you buy into some bulls*** alternative philosophy doesn't mean that you're a critial thinkier. You claim to know something that you could not possibly know in the absence of scientific evidence, which does not exist. You're just another message board pseudo-expert, GIVER OF OPINIONS!"

wild guess wrote:

Are you Kevin Trudeau? wrote:

Looks like a cut and paste job--marijuologist usually swears a lot more... Also looks like someone is in love with the word "modalities".

Exactly. That word in particular is a tipoff. It means you're dealing with a pseudo-intellectual who desperately wishes to sound smarter than they are. Much like "paradigm"

The essay is original- go ahead and put any part of it in a search engine.

The writing really isn't that remarkable; I just wanted it to be somewhat more formal than usual.

And I'm sorry I used the world "modality" so many times. Kind of annoying.

The essay is original- go ahead and put any part of it in a search engine.

The writing really isn't so remarkable that it deserves this kind of criticism. I just wanted it to be somewhat more formal than usual.

And I'm sorry I used the world "modality" so many times. It is kind of annoying.

paradigm--good one! wrote:

I did a quick search and saw this quote from marijuologist himself--someone who clearly doesn't take his own advice! (and to the earlier poster, this IS a cut and paste--profanity and grammar all courtesy of Modality, err, Marijuologist)

"You're an idiot. And just because you buy into some bulls*** alternative philosophy doesn't mean that you're a critial thinkier. You claim to know something that you could not possibly know in the absence of scientific evidence, which does not exist. You're just another message board pseudo-expert, GIVER OF OPINIONS!"

You're a f***nugget. The fact that you insist this was cut-and-paste indicates that you are so impressed that you don't want to believe that I wrote it, which is pretty sad because it really isn't that impressive. Come the f*** on.

And, the position I presented here does not require scientific evidence for seveal reasons: 1) I offered enough disclaimers and that it should have been clear to the non-retard that I was presenting it as opinion only; and, 2) there is no scientific evidence to support the counter-argument, i.e. that ice facilitates healing. You can express an opinion without citing studies.

Go back to the post of mine that you retrieved and look at the context of that discussion. "GIVER OF KNOWLEDGE" had claimed as fact that overpronation is due to "tightness in the core area." Now that's a claim that needs to be substantiated. I was right to criticize him.

Meow! That guy/gal knows how to push your buttons! I thought you were in your 20s, but that is a response one might expect from a 15 year old...

I think the original post only said it was cut and paste because it wasn't your typical style. Nothing about it being impressive. "F***nugget" or "non-retard": now THOSE are more the kinds of things I think Kevin Trudeau was expecting. Your reaction only helps verify his OPINION, plus gives fuel to wild guess's post that you are trying to sound smarter than you usually do.

Couple words of advice for you, ignore them if you wish:

Nothing wrong with opinions, but if that's what you offer, you better expect that eventually you will have to back it up with a bit more substance. Using profanity and ad hominem attacks will only hurt your cause (and if it helps, you have a very unsophisticated audience--which is the letsrun.com boards at times, but I digress). Finally, maybe you should post under a name other than "marijuologist" if you want to be taken seriously.