Scott Razco, her coach
Keira’s mileage
Pro News/Info/Results
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10
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I run more than her wrote:
Er... wrote:
You don’t know where you saw it but you remember the exact numbers?
Actually, yes. I have a habit of just writing things in the margin of a notebook of training info. All I have written is "D'amato 2019, 4169, 2020, 4076, 2021, 2957". I have no idea when I wrote it or where I saw it. Probably saw it on LetsRun. Maybe someone posted her Strava data a while back or something. I don't have Strava so I can't see it. Maybe someone else can check it.
You maintain a notebook of fun running facts you saw? I can't imagine why I would ever see her mileage totals and think "I really should write that down".
I'm generally intrigued what else you have in there.
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Manifesto of sorts, no doubt
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falcone wrote:
The problem with Beck is that he was reared on out-dated marathon training philosophies... he raced in the late 90s and early 2000s where it was all Lydiard and Daniels, and we now know you can run 160km/week and run 2:05 or 2:20 quite consistently using the right stimulus and recovery. Also, Beck was not very talented compared to a Foot Locker finalist and NCAA Champ contender like D'Amato.. not even sure Beck ran college or sub-14:30 for 5000m even.
To each his own.
Is Daniels outdated now? What are people doing instead these days?
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Er... wrote:
I run more than her wrote:
Bingo, that's where I saw it. I barely remember reading that article. Er... and the rest of you downvoters GO HOME DEVASTATED
I didn’t downvote you I asked you a question. And then I upvoted your helpful reply and the reply of the guy who found the source. Have a great day.
Yes, but can you please clarify your stauses:
A - DEVASTATED true/false
B - GONE HOME true/false02 -
toodamnhot wrote:
falcone wrote:
The problem with Beck is that he was reared on out-dated marathon training philosophies... he raced in the late 90s and early 2000s where it was all Lydiard and Daniels, and we now know you can run 160km/week and run 2:05 or 2:20 quite consistently using the right stimulus and recovery. Also, Beck was not very talented compared to a Foot Locker finalist and NCAA Champ contender like D'Amato.. not even sure Beck ran college or sub-14:30 for 5000m even.
To each his own.
Is Daniels outdated now? What are people doing instead these days?
Yes, absolutely Daniels is outdated in regards to Marathon training, specifically. I'm not familiar with anyone, globally at the elite level, using Daniels. The breakthroughs have come from Canova's influence in terms of marathon specificity and special blocks. There is also an internal vs external load breakthrough and less long build-ups and shorter build-ups... think of Daniels 18-24 weeks, that's no longer relevant, it's no 8-10 weeks maybe a little more. Tons of great work from Patrik Sang/Kipchogne/NN Group and Iacopo Brasi.
Lots of great information on YouTube with seminars from World Athletics, etc.
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It’s incredible how a 37 almost 38 year old woman runs 2:21 and it is not to her standard. Incredible achievement but tough to rebound from a marathon in only 2 months. It would be great to see her have a long buildup for her next marathon. She should be congratulated 2:21 is incredible!!
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It is not so simple as to say there are no good results at higher mileage. Was the American record because mileage was reduced or was there an American record after a couple of years of high mileage followed by a transition to overall lower and faster miles?
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i didn't look at her profile but is it possible that she didn't include warm up and cool down jogs in the logs? if so, that could potentially make up for around 20 miles
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JerryMiznerApologist wrote:
Scott Razco, her coach
My bad, I thought her coach was Scott Raczko. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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One thing I think is getting lost in this thread is that D'Amato ran at about her level in Berlin. She's probably a 2:20-high to 2:21-low runner. Yes, she ran 2:19, but that was on her very best day when everything clicked. Your very best performance isn't indicative of the runner you are on average. Look at her last 5 results prior to Berlin:
2:34, 2:22, 2:28, 2:19, 2:23
Running isn't a video game, you don't level-up with a performance and stay there, performance fluctuates around a mean. You just have to hope your average gets better over time. It's why people like Kipchoge, Ingebrigtsen, and Jepchirchir are so impressive - it's not just their top-end performance, it's that they bring an extremely high level every time. D'Amato had a big goal, it looked like 2:18.30 from her first half splits, but that isn't where she is. I'm convinced that if she had ran conservatively, she would have run 2:20, but what would that be worth to her?
In short, she did fine, not her best day, far from her worst. A solid B performance or B+ for the attempt to do something special.
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woaa wrote:
whats crazy is that she has the same mileage as a college team, why nc state women train like they are marathoners? the girls run 70 miles per week based on their strava, insane.
70 miles a week is insane for the defending National champions?
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Surprise! wrote:
woaa wrote:
whats crazy is that she has the same mileage as a college team, why nc state women train like they are marathoners? the girls run 70 miles per week based on their strava, insane.
70 miles a week is insane for the defending National champions?
Or were you saying it is insane that the American record holder at the marathon is only doing what college runners are doing? That of course I agree with.
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High hopes wrote:
One thing I think is getting lost in this thread is that D'Amato ran at about her level in Berlin. She's probably a 2:20-high to 2:21-low runner. Yes, she ran 2:19, but that was on her very best day when everything clicked. Your very best performance isn't indicative of the runner you are on average. Look at her last 5 results prior to Berlin:
2:34, 2:22, 2:28, 2:19, 2:23
Running isn't a video game, you don't level-up with a performance and stay there, performance fluctuates around a mean. You just have to hope your average gets better over time. It's why people like Kipchoge, Ingebrigtsen, and Jepchirchir are so impressive - it's not just their top-end performance, it's that they bring an extremely high level every time. D'Amato had a big goal, it looked like 2:18.30 from her first half splits, but that isn't where she is. I'm convinced that if she had ran conservatively, she would have run 2:20, but what would that be worth to her?
In short, she did fine, not her best day, far from her worst. A solid B performance or B+ for the attempt to do something special.
Completely agree. Her training/races also did not indicate a high likelihood of 2:18. I don't know too many people that can hold their 10mi/Half race pace + 10sec/mi for a marathon.
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840FTL wrote:
High hopes wrote:
One thing I think is getting lost in this thread is that D'Amato ran at about her level in Berlin. She's probably a 2:20-high to 2:21-low runner. Yes, she ran 2:19, but that was on her very best day when everything clicked. Your very best performance isn't indicative of the runner you are on average. Look at her last 5 results prior to Berlin:
2:34, 2:22, 2:28, 2:19, 2:23
Running isn't a video game, you don't level-up with a performance and stay there, performance fluctuates around a mean. You just have to hope your average gets better over time. It's why people like Kipchoge, Ingebrigtsen, and Jepchirchir are so impressive - it's not just their top-end performance, it's that they bring an extremely high level every time. D'Amato had a big goal, it looked like 2:18.30 from her first half splits, but that isn't where she is. I'm convinced that if she had ran conservatively, she would have run 2:20, but what would that be worth to her?
In short, she did fine, not her best day, far from her worst. A solid B performance or B+ for the attempt to do something special.
Completely agree. Her training/races also did not indicate a high likelihood of 2:18. I don't know too many people that can hold their 10mi/Half race pace + 10sec/mi for a marathon.
My wife can hold HM RP + 10" for MP... but she's a 2:42 runner, not 2:22!!!
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falcone wrote:
toodamnhot wrote:
Is Daniels outdated now? What are people doing instead these days?
Yes, absolutely Daniels is outdated in regards to Marathon training, specifically. I'm not familiar with anyone, globally at the elite level, using Daniels. The breakthroughs have come from Canova's influence in terms of marathon specificity and special blocks. There is also an internal vs external load breakthrough and less long build-ups and shorter build-ups... think of Daniels 18-24 weeks, that's no longer relevant, it's no 8-10 weeks maybe a little more. Tons of great work from Patrik Sang/Kipchogne/NN Group and Iacopo Brasi.
Lots of great information on YouTube with seminars from World Athletics, etc.
You´re talking rubbish. Daniels´books are meant for the masses, not the elite.
When Daniels coaches Jerry Lawson to an American record, the training didn´t look anything like his books.
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coffee cup wrote:
Far be it for me to question anything about the training of the American record holder, but hey it’s really early and I’ve been up for 3 hours already.
Take your own advice. She knows more than you do.
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well,,, wrote:
falcone wrote:
Yes, absolutely Daniels is outdated in regards to Marathon training, specifically. I'm not familiar with anyone, globally at the elite level, using Daniels. The breakthroughs have come from Canova's influence in terms of marathon specificity and special blocks. There is also an internal vs external load breakthrough and less long build-ups and shorter build-ups... think of Daniels 18-24 weeks, that's no longer relevant, it's no 8-10 weeks maybe a little more. Tons of great work from Patrik Sang/Kipchogne/NN Group and Iacopo Brasi.
Lots of great information on YouTube with seminars from World Athletics, etc.
You´re talking rubbish. Daniels´books are meant for the masses, not the elite.
When Daniels coaches Jerry Lawson to an American record, the training didn´t look anything like his books.
+1.
I can't believe the above discussion actually took place. Did people really think that elite runners would open up a Daniels book and follow the plan?
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woaa wrote:
whats crazy is that she has the same mileage as a college team, why nc state women train like they are marathoners? the girls run 70 miles per week based on their strava, insane.
70 miles in a week isn't a lot. A ton of people do that, and typically good marathoners are over 100 miles per week. So running 70 for Keira is considered abnormally low, 70 for college runner is very typical. Top college guys are often running 90-100 mile weeks for 5k-10k training.
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