I suck at the 5K. How do I improve?

need4speed wrote:

I've been running consistently for 2 years (30-60 miles every week except down weeks over Christmas).

I've just raced 2 5Ks in 18:06 and 18:16. In comparison, my 10K is high 36, half is 81 minutes and marathon is 2:58.

When I ran 18:06 the splits were 5:40, 5:52, 5:58. It was a fairy twisty course.

I race a lot better than I train. I do lots of 8 minute miles and lengthy runs. I've tried different interval lengths and I do regular tempos around 6:25-6:35. I'm not sure what else I can do? I don't understand how I can hold 6:00 for 10K quite easily even up hills but when it comes to 5:50 or 5:40 pace I can't maintain it. Should I smash out lots of 400s as fast as possible?

I have one final shot at the 5K course and I'm desperate to go sub 18 (17:45 would be nice). What can I do? :?

need 4 speed wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

1) How old are you? I will assume male.

2) You don't suck.

3) You are an aerobic king, that's why you can run a 10K just slightly slower than your 5k pace.

4) You need some practice running fast. For YOU I suggest some repeat 1000s. Goal pace. 90 seconds to 3 minutes rest depending on how many you do. If you get down the road a bit and you are finally running some faster 5,000s, then you can start doing some repeat 400s.

Good luck.

Thanks! I'm 33. What would make the 1000s more suitable over 400s?

HRE wrote:

If there are track meets where you are enter some and race events like the 800, mile/1500, 2 mile/3,000. If there are no track meets look for some road miles.

HRE wrote:

If there are track meets where you are enter some and race events like the 800, mile/1500, 2 mile/3,000. If there are no track meets look for some road miles.

need4speed wrote:

I've been running consistently for 2 years (30-60 miles every week except down weeks over Christmas).

I've just raced 2 5Ks in 18:06 and 18:16. In comparison, my 10K is high 36, half is 81 minutes and marathon is 2:58.

When I ran 18:06 the splits were 5:40, 5:52, 5:58. It was a fairy twisty course.

I race a lot better than I train. I do lots of 8 minute miles and lengthy runs. I've tried different interval lengths and I do regular tempos around 6:25-6:35. I'm not sure what else I can do? I don't understand how I can hold 6:00 for 10K quite easily even up hills but when it comes to 5:50 or 5:40 pace I can't maintain it. Should I smash out lots of 400s as fast as possible?

I have one final shot at the 5K course and I'm desperate to go sub 18 (17:45 would be nice). What can I do? :?

HRE wrote:

I've seen many guys "race themselves fit." George Young called racing the best form of speedwork there is. Ron Clarke didn't do intervals but raced constantly at distances as short as the 800. Lydiard had runners "bracket" their races using short races to improve speed and long ones to improve endurance. You don't see elite 5/10 km runners doing it because people don't race much anymore. No one does like Clark and runs "club races" nearly every weekend now. But it will work.

The Map the Territory wrote:

ditto, you don't suck at all, you just need to do weekly interval workouts at goal pace so your body gets used to running fast and operating at the higher heart rate without freaking out

Some track workouts:

6 X 1000s starting at 10K pace and going down to 5K pace with 2 minute rest between

6 - 8 800s at 5K pace with 2 minute rest between

4 X 1 mile at 5K pace with 3 minute rest between

need 4 speed wrote:

The Map the Territory wrote:

ditto, you don't suck at all, you just need to do weekly interval workouts at goal pace so your body gets used to running fast and operating at the higher heart rate without freaking out

Some track workouts:

6 X 1000s starting at 10K pace and going down to 5K pace with 2 minute rest between

6 - 8 800s at 5K pace with 2 minute rest between

4 X 1 mile at 5K pace with 3 minute rest between

I've done 4 x 1 mile a couple of times. That is a tough workout and not one I would like to do again to be honest. I'm a lot better at 800s and 4 minute repeats (so just a bit longer than a km). I asked about the 400s because I can maintain a fast pace easily on those... next easiest is 2 minute repeats and 800s.

need4speed wrote:

I don't understand how I can hold 6:00 for 10K quite easily even up hills but when it comes to 5:50 or 5:40 pace I can't maintain it. Should I smash out lots of 400s as fast as possible?

I

need 4 speed wrote:

What else can I do to improve my endurance? Long 15 milers at 7:30? 45 minute tempos at 6:30? Just throwing some ideas around.

need 4 speed wrote:

What else can I do to improve my endurance? Long 15 milers at 7:30? 45 minute tempos at 6:30? Just throwing some ideas around.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

HRE wrote:

I've seen many guys "race themselves fit." George Young called racing the best form of speedwork there is. Ron Clarke didn't do intervals but raced constantly at distances as short as the 800. Lydiard had runners "bracket" their races using short races to improve speed and long ones to improve endurance. You don't see elite 5/10 km runners doing it because people don't race much anymore. No one does like Clark and runs "club races" nearly every weekend now. But it will work.

Racing does not replace training. Fisher rarely races but has managed to be very successful and 800m is no more beneficial than doing speed work. Rodgers seemed to race almost weekly and Kipchoge about twice a year, so “racing themselves fit” is not advantageous.