Salazar usually gets his athletes to run to the best of their ability. Sometimes your level is just your level.
Im sure she could have been trained in a more optimal way, but world class was never going to be in the cards.
I disagree. Prior to going to Salazar, she was being remotely coached by him but had the NYAC athlete from Australia coaching her, John Henwood. She was doing great at that point and ran incredible times while not overworking in intervals. Salazar commented on how she was able to race far faster than her workout times, which were not impressive. He decided to make sure her workout times were impressive, and so she was overcooked and lost her love of the sport, if she ever had it, from the berating, pressure, and overwork. You have to be able to read your athletes better. You could tell that she was losing her love of the sport from the pressure already when she was skipping big meets for prom. With athletes like that, you really have to step back, let them be under-trained a bit, and keep the pressure down, the total opposite, in other words, of Salazar's M-O. She's not the only one who got eating disorders from his approach. It's not about the weight; it's about the attitudes toward the weight.
I don’t think the level of training was the issue. Salazar decided to focus on her weight rather than putting her on a healthy diet and letting her weight take care of itself.
For the powerless, strength is defined by your ability to take it on the chin, to obey, to accept bulling put your nose down and work harder. See: USA women's gymnasts.
For the powerful, strength is defined by your ability to yell, scream, bully, demean and dole out orders. For example, that's why Trump was viewed as a tough guy even through he's quite fragile.
That's why when the powerless (athletes) speak up, it's seen as "weak and whiny". That's why we lament the end of "tough coaching" when really, abusive people are being held accountable.
The mary cain case REALLY touched a nerve...with certain men.
I am fascinated by this. Overwhelmingly the people who are dismissive, minimizing, and willing to cast Mary as a "whiner" are men. The people who are willing to roll their eyes and say things like "she couldn't handle tough coaching!" and "she was fat anyways" are men. Overwhelmingly the people who defend Alberto as simply a tough-guy coach instead of abusive...are men.
Most of the women I know in the sport strongly felt that the Mary Cain story resonated with them. That's why there was a mini "me too" movement in sports. Because women, not Mary Cain alone, but women, felt like they too were picked apart unnecessarily for their weight, and suffered as a result. They wanted a change.
This isn't a case of "girls can't handle tough coaching!" one can argue that what Mary Cain did was VERY tough and showed her strength just as you argue it showed her need to blame.
And in case anyone needs a refresher, here is a list of allegations against Salazar.
--Amy Yoder Begley said Salazar made her sign a document saying she won't be friends with her teammates
--Amy Yoder Begly was criticized, and called names for her weight frequently, especially her a**. Amy Yoder Begley, a grown adult came forward after the Cain allegations to note this happened.
--Mary Cain was given laxatives and birth control pills for which she did not have a prescription for to lose weight.
--Mary Cain was berated in front of an entire track meet for "gaining five pounds" because she had bacon and eggs for her pre-race meal. This isn't how you gain five pounds, btw so not accurate.
--Mary Cain was criticized for her weight even though she was performing well. Despite getting second to Jenny at USA's, she was forced to stay home and from competing because Alberto thought she was too heavy.
--There is 0 evidence that the 114 pound weight goal they set for Mary would be beneficial. Zero. Evidence. How's that for your favorite mad scientist coach?
--Alberto sexually abused an athlete, Larry Nassar style and has been found guilty of that too.
Where were these women when this was happening? Mary herself claimed her female teammates witnessed it but none of them came out publicly and said it was wrong until after the fact. The day it happened every last one of them should have stood up to him and stood up for her.
If my boss starts to ridicule any of my coworkers, let alone a child, I will have it out with them then and there. Not wait for an expose about them.
Where were these women when this was happening? Mary herself claimed her female teammates witnessed it but none of them came out publicly and said it was wrong until after the fact. The day it happened every last one of them should have stood up to him and stood up for her.
If my boss starts to ridicule any of my coworkers, let alone a child, I will have it out with them then and there. Not wait for an expose about them.
Appears that Shelby had more support from her teammates than Mary had. There’s something not right here.
Where were these women when this was happening? Mary herself claimed her female teammates witnessed it but none of them came out publicly and said it was wrong until after the fact. The day it happened every last one of them should have stood up to him and stood up for her.
If my boss starts to ridicule any of my coworkers, let alone a child, I will have it out with them then and there. Not wait for an expose about them.
Appears that Shelby had more support from her teammates than Mary had. There’s something not right here.
I was thinking the same thing. One of them is convicted of doping and everyone on the team comes out gushing about them and how wonderful they are. Mary is essentially harassed out of the sport and very few of her teammates say anything.
The people on the inside tell you that Shelby is innocent amd that Cain was a complainer who exaggerated everything. Now you see why many of us lean toward believing those 2 things.
The people on the inside tell you that Shelby is innocent amd that Cain was a complainer who exaggerated everything. Now you see why many of us lean toward believing those 2 things.
How can she be innocent? She literally tested positive. Unless you are saying the test was wrong and have some insider information. But you don't.
Where were these women when this was happening? Mary herself claimed her female teammates witnessed it but none of them came out publicly and said it was wrong until after the fact. The day it happened every last one of them should have stood up to him and stood up for her.
If my boss starts to ridicule any of my coworkers, let alone a child, I will have it out with them then and there. Not wait for an expose about them.
Appears that Shelby had more support from her teammates than Mary had. There’s something not right here.
Mary seeked out support from the public, it felt like that was really what she wanted.
I really did not understand how she made it "trending" and you can't tell me she wasn't liking the "abused" persona, and loved being in the spotlight, at least in the impression that she gives. Bottomline she just give off self-centered vibe.
Mary Cain gained more exposure with that controversy than when she was a runner.
I don’t think the level of training was the issue. Salazar decided to focus on her weight rather than putting her on a healthy diet and letting her weight take care of itself.
This thread makes me wish that I didn't believe in free expression as it's going to outrage a lot of people as a lot of the takes are ridiculous.
The post above is perfect. And right on the money.
Was Mary Cain long term going to have a body capable of being in the best in the world? I don't know. Was Salazar trying to force her to have that body type going to help? Most definitely not. It BACKFIRES eventually and you put on even more weight.
People need to train right, eat right and see what happens. Will every huge 15-year old talent be a world beater at 25? Could I ever be an NFL offensive lineman no matter how much I ate and lifted? Not even close. I've got the perfect metabolism for distance running. My wife watches me eat so much fast food and can't believe I'm not obese.
I don’t think the level of training was the issue. Salazar decided to focus on her weight rather than putting her on a healthy diet and letting her weight take care of itself.
The post above is perfect. And right on the money.
Was Mary Cain long term going to have a body capable of being in the best in the world? I don't know. Was Salazar trying to force her to have that body type going to help? Most definitely not. It BACKFIRES eventually and you put on even more weight.
Rojo, Cain's parents medical docs, that doesn't raise any red flags as far as her highschool career, before she was even under Salazar directly? As directly opposed to what babby says above, "Mary's disappointing pro career was because she refused to dope and she got beaten by all the drug cheats. She was outspoken about all the cheaters in her program so everybody else hated her."
I don’t think the level of training was the issue. Salazar decided to focus on her weight rather than putting her on a healthy diet and letting her weight take care of itself.
This thread makes me wish that I didn't believe in free expression as it's going to outrage a lot of people as a lot of the takes are ridiculous.
The post above is perfect. And right on the money.
Was Mary Cain long term going to have a body capable of being in the best in the world? I don't know. Was Salazar trying to force her to have that body type going to help? Most definitely not. It BACKFIRES eventually and you put on even more weight.
People need to train right, eat right and see what happens. Will every huge 15-year old talent be a world beater at 25? Could I ever be an NFL offensive lineman no matter how much I ate and lifted? Not even close. I've got the perfect metabolism for distance running. My wife watches me eat so much fast food and can't believe I'm not obese.
yup. it's a game of patience, especially with women. I don't think alberto had a lot of experience coaching 16-20 year old girls, so he probably didn't understand this process. It's an area of ignorance for an otherwise all-world coach. Alberto is not an evil person. No doubt, he thought he was doing the best thing for her running career.
anyway, under the gun, I just don't think senior level success was in the cards for her. That's not defending what he did, I just don't think he is the reason she ultimately was not able to succeed.
The people on the inside tell you that Shelby is innocent amd that Cain was a complainer who exaggerated everything. Now you see why many of us lean toward believing those 2 things.
This thread makes me wish that I didn't believe in free expression as it's going to outrage a lot of people as a lot of the takes are ridiculous.
The post above is perfect. And right on the money.
Was Mary Cain long term going to have a body capable of being in the best in the world? I don't know. Was Salazar trying to force her to have that body type going to help? Most definitely not. It BACKFIRES eventually and you put on even more weight.
People need to train right, eat right and see what happens. Will every huge 15-year old talent be a world beater at 25? Could I ever be an NFL offensive lineman no matter how much I ate and lifted? Not even close. I've got the perfect metabolism for distance running. My wife watches me eat so much fast food and can't believe I'm not obese.
yup. it's a game of patience, especially with women. I don't think alberto had a lot of experience coaching 16-20 year old girls, so he probably didn't understand this process. It's an area of ignorance for an otherwise all-world coach. Alberto is not an evil person. No doubt, he thought he was doing the best thing for her running career.
anyway, under the gun, I just don't think senior level success was in the cards for her. That's not defending what he did, I just don't think he is the reason she ultimately was not able to succeed.
What makes you think this? What evidence do you have? A girl was running world class times with minimal training. It's totally possible that with the right training she could have improved. It's ridiculous to be so dismissive. Look at Tuohy, improving and improving.
Evil is a silly term in general, but I think Alberto did plenty to show that he's not a good person. The way he treated Yoder-Begley wasn't an angry outburst from someone filled with emotion but calculated and malicious. And I'm tired of someone playing fast and loose with prescription pills treated like a "passionate" coach. At best, he's an idiot. Who messes around with that stuff? At worse, he is inhumane with a blatant disregard for athlete health.
Oh and there's that pesky sexual abuse conviction from safe sport.