Jakob's ability in the 10k right now

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7 months ago 08/04/2022 4:32am EDT

Hdoer wrote:
Maybe 26:30 isn’t what it used to be (due to the shoes) but if it is, Jakob is unlikely in that shape. Some of you forget that Hicham was a better runner than Jakob has been so far, and I very much doubt you folks thought Hicham could run 26:30. So suddenly you have this Norwegian and he is the best runner the world has ever seen, he can do pretty much anything he wants. This is not the reality. Jakob is unlikely to ever run 26:30.

Jakob made a stacked field look mediocre in Eugene. I expected him to win, but not that easily. Sure it was slower, but then he won in Florence last year in 12:47 taking down the guys who would go on to win 5000 gold and silver 7 weeks later in Tokyo - both of whom are 26:30 or better guys. The energy systems used (anaerobic v aerobic balance) between the 5 and the 10 are very similar. I don't see someone being a 12:47 guy if not better and not breaking 26:40.

Jakob's 800 is way weaker than his 5000. I'm fully on board with the take that his best event is the 5000, he just enjoys the 1500 more.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 6:33am EDT

re: Koko the Gorilla

Koko the Gorilla wrote:
Ghost of Jim Ryun wrote:
Nah there is no way he could run 26:30 training for 1500/5000 without some more specific work, probably closer to 27:00. 26:30 with a cycle of 10,000 training possibly.
I don't care how much threshold he does, you aren't gonna run top 5 all time in the 10,000 without specific prep.
He ran 2617, in May, no pacers after 4km, no wavelights, off PURE 5k training.

It was end of August.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 6:58am EDT

re: THOUGHTSLEADER

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
12:45 and 26:30 are proportional times that a 5/10K runner would accomplish and Jakob is clearly a 1500/5000m guy. Even if he focused on the 10000m, he’s always going to better at 5K. Aerobic monsters are not uncommon at the Olympics.
If Jakob were to set out for PBs right now with wavelight and top pacers, I think the marks his team would target are 12:40 and 26:30. Yes, I'd have more confidence in the 5,000m goal but he believes and probably has good reason to believe based on his testing and workouts he can run really well at 10,000. Executing is a different matter especially over 25 laps.

I agree, however we have a case of Jakob running this distance quite recently, he ran the 10k XC Euro Championship this last winter and won very comfortably over Jimmy Gressier, who has a 27:24 PB.

It is not very indicative but I just wanted to throw it out there that he did ran the distance *recently* in a competition.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 7:41am EDT

re: 1500m-enthusiast

Jakob is fairly beefy, that can sometimes play a factor as distances go up (heat dissipation, etc). 25 laps takes a certain mindset. Could be great but would need to do one to see if it suits him. Couldn't see him doing a marathon for e.g.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 7:57am EDT

re: Might not suit him

If he can run 12.45, which I'm sure he can, then he can run 26.30

If heat dissipation was a problem for him he wouldn't have outclassed everyone in the heat of Eugene in the 5000.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 8:30am EDT

re: Glass half full

Glass half full wrote:
If he can run 12.45, which I'm sure he can, then he can run 26.30
If heat dissipation was a problem for him he wouldn't have outclassed everyone in the heat of Eugene in the 5000.

Possibly, probably - not a lock 🤷‍♂️. I've seen plenty that can't translate their 5,000m to 10,000m on the track.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 11:27am EDT

re: Might not suit him

Might not suit him wrote:
Glass half full wrote:
If he can run 12.45, which I'm sure he can, then he can run 26.30
If heat dissipation was a problem for him he wouldn't have outclassed everyone in the heat of Eugene in the 5000.
Possibly, probably - not a lock 🤷‍♂️. I've seen plenty that can't translate their 5,000m to 10,000m on the track.

More accurately, it’s whether they can be equally good in the 1500m and 10000m.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 11:43am EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
Might not suit him wrote:
Possibly, probably - not a lock 🤷‍♂️. I've seen plenty that can't translate their 5,000m to 10,000m on the track.
More accurately, it’s whether they can be equally good in the 1500m and 10000m.

Mo Farah has an interesting spread (note: i only assigned the outdoor value of 1248 for the 2 mile instead of the 1292 assigned for indoor tracks)

1500: 1262

3000: 1248

5000: 1235

10000: 1248

HM: 1205

M: 1241

7 months ago 08/04/2022 11:53am EDT

re: 1500m-enthusiast

With testing: 28:27 minutes.

Without testing: 27:01

7 months ago 08/04/2022 12:53pm EDT

re: high school xc coach

high school xc coach wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
More accurately, it’s whether they can be equally good in the 1500m and 10000m.
Mo Farah has an interesting spread (note: i only assigned the outdoor value of 1248 for the 2 mile instead of the 1292 assigned for indoor tracks)
1500: 1262
3000: 1248
5000: 1235
10000: 1248
HM: 1205
M: 1241

Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 1:53pm EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
Mo Farah has an interesting spread (note: i only assigned the outdoor value of 1248 for the 2 mile instead of the 1292 assigned for indoor tracks)
1500: 1262
3000: 1248
5000: 1235
10000: 1248
HM: 1205
M: 1241
Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.

Going to keep repeating this until everyone knows it:

Up until he retired, Farah had the number 2 and number 4 winning 10,000m times in the history of global championships. Bekele had the number 1 and 3 times.

One of the big takeaways from Doha 2019, Tokyo 2021, and Eugene 2022 is just how good Farah and Bekele were to be able to win the 5/10 double. Even a supreme talent like Cheptegei hasn't managed it.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 3:15pm EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.

Definitely would be a consistent medalist in any era (with a great chance to win gold). His prime did coincide with a bit of a drop-off, which made golds more attainable. Bekele, Lagat and Kipchoge were no longer in their prime. Uganda hadn't emerged as a country with 2-3 contenders in both the 5 and 10K, and Moses Kipsiro's best days were behind him. So he faced off with good, but not generational athletes. The Hagos Gebrhiwet, Paul Tanui, Chelimo, Jeilan types. Would've been interesting to see him against prime Barega, Jakob, Cheptegei, Kiplimo et al.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 3:26pm EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
Mo Farah has an interesting spread (note: i only assigned the outdoor value of 1248 for the 2 mile instead of the 1292 assigned for indoor tracks)
1500: 1262
3000: 1248
5000: 1235
10000: 1248
HM: 1205
M: 1241
Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.

Mo Farah was indeed FREAKISHLY talented. That explains why at age 25 he was a guy with bests of:

3:38 7:38 13:07 27:44

7 months ago 08/04/2022 3:40pm EDT

re: Hdoer

Hdoer wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.
Mo Farah was indeed FREAKISHLY talented. That explains why at age 25 he was a guy with bests of:
3:38 7:38 13:07 27:44

It was the Salazar push-ups.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 5:24pm EDT

re: Hdoer

Hdoer wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Farah was freakishly talented. Some posters claim that he won WC or Olympic Gold Medals because he ran in a less competitive era or because people were afraid to push the pace against him, but I doubt if there has ever been a runner that could have gapped him.
Mo Farah was indeed FREAKISHLY talented. That explains why at age 25 he was a guy with bests of:
3:38 7:38 13:07 27:44

Anytime accusations of doping are brought into a comparison of athletes, the discussion becomes meaningless.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 5:37pm EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
Hdoer wrote:
Mo Farah was indeed FREAKISHLY talented. That explains why at age 25 he was a guy with bests of:
3:38 7:38 13:07 27:44
Anytime accusations of doping are brought into a comparison of athletes, the discussion becomes meaningless.

No it does NOT. Please educate yourself. You said Farah was freakishly talented. I showed that he really wasn’t. Farah was an also ran who was routinely disposed of in major championships until the unethical Alberto got ahold of him. Facts are stubborn things.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 5:47pm EDT

re: Hdoer

In 2009-2010 it must be said that Mo Farah showed something. Sub-3:34 1500, 7:34i, 12:57, 5,000. Obviously he made a huge leap post-Salazar, but the leap from before 2009 to his '09-'10 level was significant

7 months ago 08/04/2022 5:51pm EDT

re: THOUGHTSLEADER

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
In 2009-2010 it must be said that Mo Farah showed something. Sub-3:34 1500, 7:34i, 12:57, 5,000. Obviously he made a huge leap post-Salazar, but the leap from before 2009 to his '09-'10 level was significant

Oh sure but at that point he had gone to Kenya to train and he was 27 in 2010. There were no signs at all of a world beater.

7 months ago 08/04/2022 6:00pm EDT

re: Hdoer

Hdoer wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Anytime accusations of doping are brought into a comparison of athletes, the discussion becomes meaningless.
No it does NOT. Please educate yourself. You said Farah was freakishly talented. I showed that he really wasn’t. Farah was an also ran who was routinely disposed of in major championships until the unethical Alberto got ahold of him. Facts are stubborn things.

It’s not a fact that he cheated. Many posters believe every member of BTC cheats. Is that a fact? Does everyone think Jakob is clean?

7 months ago 08/04/2022 6:05pm EDT

re: SDSU Aztec

SDSU Aztec wrote:
Hdoer wrote:
No it does NOT. Please educate yourself. You said Farah was freakishly talented. I showed that he really wasn’t. Farah was an also ran who was routinely disposed of in major championships until the unethical Alberto got ahold of him. Facts are stubborn things.
It’s not a fact that he cheated. Many posters believe every member of BTC cheats. Is that a fact? Does everyone think Jakob is clean?

Let us posit that Mo Farah never cheated. Well he still was so “freakishly talented” that he was a guy who could NOT medal until he was 28 and then it was almost as if he could NOT lose.

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