Defending HLW again. She recruits foreigners, but Oregon has historically always done that. She didn't change very much.
HLW's entire scoring squad at USF the year they did really well at NCAA cross was overage foreigners (all European). Make of it what you will.
Again, do you not realize how many foreign athletes came through Oregon's distance program before her? Do you know what nationality Jessica Hull is? Carmela Cardama Baez (no, Helen did not recruit her)? Susan Ejore? Lilli Burdon? Zoe Buckman?
Also, the 2021 roster (Helen's last season), there were 4 athletes from Oregon, 3 california, 4 from other US states, and 6 internationals. So that's like 6/17 internationals? Not even half? I mean come on you guys act like she only recruits out of Poland or something. Ben Thomas had 6/25 international athletes on his cross country roster, apparently that means they "only" recruit foreigners.
MYTH BUSTED. I guess maybe she should have been allowed to recruit more international athletes. "Make of that what you will."
This opinion is exactly what is wrong in the western world.
who cares about diversity? I care about results. If she was a good coach she would still have a job. It’s that simple. There is no one above her saying “she is a woman, gotta get rid of her asap”
My point was about her replacement. The problem is that “the best person” is a metric that has been suppressed because of the limited lack of opportunities to gain experience that are afforded to women and people of color.
The problem is that a lot of straight white males assume if a straight white male isn't in a position, the current position holder isn't qualified or don't meet their arbitrary performance standards which is set by themselves at the convenience of deeming someone unqualified (see how that works?).
Who ever is coaching will never be "the best person" for the job. If Jerry doesn't produce fantastic results, he'll get a slap on the wrist cause he's Jerry even though the expectation of fantastic results is justified with his previous coaching success.
The Oregon women haven't been top of the crop the past several years, but HLW has done just fine at her job. She's qualified, but it's the standard of Oregon. If you don't produce results rooted in overexpectation or have a very close connection with the big heads, you'll get fired.
Can we just talk about Lehman-Winters as a coach? She certainly had a great reputation and great results at USF. What happened at Oregon? Year 1 she did well, but inherited a strong team. She did a good job with Hull and Baez, no? What was the problem with US recruiting? I’m genuinely interested in why things did not live up to expectations if that is the correct interpretation? What was the lesion?
Lehman-Winters literally didn't know how to coach. The only way she could be successful is offering 18 full scholarships to international women. She also had a really bad reputation for causing eating disorders at USF.
Without a steady stream of talented foreign athletes, she couldn't do anything.
Agreed. Helen had proven herself well before arriving at Oregon and well before USF and well before UCLA. Did you know she coached a Footlocker Champion too? Something didn't line up in the new environment. We don't know what we don't know. We should be giving her the benefit of the doubt.
This year she had zero NCAA qualifiers in the 800
Only one qualifier in the 1500 (20th place)
No qualifiers in the 5k
No qualifiers in the 10k
One qualifier in the steeplechase (21st place).
24th as a team at cross nationals...losing to West Virginia and Harvard?
In no way do I think Shalane is incapable of handling both college and pro commitments, but hiring Shalane at Oregon doesn't seem like the best option when you think about the workload involved. Hiring another up and coming coach and allowing Shalane to take on a bigger role with Bowerman (which makes Jerry's transition easier as well) makes the most sense to me. It's also hard for me to picture her doing 95% of the recruiting, unless Oregon is going to have 3 distance coaches on staff. Time will tell I guess.
Helen did a great job at USF, results don’t lie. But If anyone does any research, you would see she was loading up internationally (12ish full scholarship athletes) with older female runners that had matured as women and athletes (put in many miles) by the time she got them. This allowed her to run them hard and people got really good while others got hurt (the reality of our sport at the highest level). She had enough depth to get away with it and have a great team. At Oregon she didn’t have that kind of money to offer women. Oregon has always relied heavily on very good American athletes that come for smaller scholarships because it’s “Oregon.” They do get great international athletes as well but not the entire team like she is used to. So she’s not getting all of the same type of runner (older) etc and she’s not used to recruiting Americans where there is intense competition, all while trying to doing it with less scholarships than she had and compete with other schools putting everything into distance (NC State, Washington, ETC). Add this up and shes not as deep as she was at USF so injuries play a huge factor now. An athlete or two goes down and her team is sunk. Being at Oregon sounds great, but I could have told you it was a career mistake when she took it…
USF was in the process of taking several of her men’s and women’s scholarships & cutting men’s track. There’s always more to the story…Helen is very good at this job/profession & knows what it is - she’ll land somewhere worthwhile soon. If she wants to bother remaining in this profession.
How on earth could she get the job over HLM? HLM has a FEW podium finishes with two different teams. Shalane has never even trained a dog how to sit. Yet, she is qualified to be the Oregon coach over someone with the resume of HLM!? She must be a CINO (coach in name only) and will be running with the athletes Jerry recruits and coaches.
Jerry should know that top talented runners almost never make good or sustainable coaches. Can you imagine her in some 17 year old's living room trying to impress her and their parents while begging them not to attend Stanford, but to come to Oregon? hahahaha she's used to 17 year olds idolizing her and now she is going to suddenly be ok foot washing them ? I can't LOL more rn.
Look. If you are a name, you don't have to pay your dues. How is that hard to understand?
Steve Kerr was named GM of the SUns with ZERO front office experience.
Steve Kerr was named coach of Golden State with ZERO coaching experience.
And it's not just white people that his happens to. Jason Kidd was named head coach in the NBA with ZERO coaching experience.
And yes Jerry is smart enough to know why most super talented runners dont' make good coaches. But he's also smart enough to realize that Shalane may not be like most super talented runners.
People on these boards were saying for 2 years how bad the Oregon women are. Now a new coach wants to bring in his own poeple and they are outraged, he may be hiring someone he's comfortable with?
Steve Kerr and Jason Kidd are the comps here? I'd prefer we use Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas.... because that's more realistic and normal when it comes to good athletes who skipped the line and got into coaching. Shalane organizing team dinners at Olive garden, van rides, passing out hotel keys, and trying to impress 17 year olds will be a big change from people idolizing you.... one moment it's you with the ego that needs feeding and then you're the one doing the feeding overnight. Alas, I guess time will tell and for Oregon's sake I hope I am wrong and they are wildly successful.... it's just wild that HLW didn't even get a shot under the new coaching staff and instead they bring in someone who isn't proven.
Shalane organizing team dinners at Olive garden, van rides, passing out hotel keys, and trying to impress 17 year olds will be a big change . . .
Which school did you go to where this was required of the head coach?
Jerry is the "head coach". Shalane is the pretend head coach.... like the other pretend HC in the Pac12 (like at UCLA, Cal, etc) they are only titled HC, but have zero real authority as that is given to the "Director"
What school did you go to where this wasn't clear?
Why would you choose the best person for a job based on gender, color, or anything else that has nothing to do with performance?
Because of the historical disadvantages of being a woman or person of color in the working world. If you’re satisfied with white men holding all the key employment positions, then leave things alone. If you’d rather see more diversity among those positions, then something needs to be done to create more opportunities for women and people of color.
Women and people of color have had an advantage for decades in hiring for track jobs.
Because of the historical disadvantages of being a woman or person of color in the working world. If you’re satisfied with white men holding all the key employment positions, then leave things alone. If you’d rather see more diversity among those positions, then something needs to be done to create more opportunities for women and people of color.
Women and people of color have had an advantage for decades in hiring for track jobs.
0/10. Nice attempt at a troll, but you have to keep it somewhat believable. No one actually thinks like that.
Helen Lehman-Winters is out at Oregon....another talented female coach out when we so desperately need women coaches. Such a shame but not surprising at a NIKE school. such a shame if they replace her with a male coach.
Could you be any more SEXIST!!!
Why women coaches? Why men coaches? How about just hiring someone who is capable of coaching? This isn't rocket F^^KING science! And, if you bothered to pay attention to who the new HC is you would know that Jerry will hire Shalane as his assistant X-C/Distance coach...and I think she's a WOMAN and would be a GREAT hire.
Because of the historical disadvantages of being a woman or person of color in the working world. If you’re satisfied with white men holding all the key employment positions, then leave things alone. If you’d rather see more diversity among those positions, then something needs to be done to create more opportunities for women and people of color.
This opinion is exactly what is wrong in the western world.
who cares about diversity? I care about results. If she was a good coach she would still have a job. It’s that simple. There is no one above her saying “she is a woman, gotta get rid of her asap”
"if she was a good coach she would still have a job."
I have no horse in this race, but that's a thoroughly inaccurate statement when we also consider that Nick Newman, the USTFCCCA Assistant Coach of the Year, was fired from Tennessee and replaced by the Not-USTFCCCA-Assistant-Coach-of-the-Year.
I'm all in favor of a new director bringing in a staff that feel they will work best even if they, on paper, aren't bringing in a better coach. Cohesion within staff is valuable and often outweighs differences in the ability levels between similarly good coaches. It's also fair to say that sometimes they let go someone who would have been much better to retain on staff.
