I really don't see the need to add this. The point of the shoe discussion is, how much difference do the shoes themselves make, all other things being equal?
I really don't see the need to add this. The point of the shoe discussion is, how much difference do the shoes themselves make, all other things being equal?
Maybe for fast runners in race efforts the differences are not that great, but for plenty of us hobby joggers out there the PEBA midsoles are big difference makers. For daily miles, my subjective reaction to PEBA plus nylon plate (Endorphin Speed 2) was similar to the change from EVA to Boost almost ten years ago. They are a revelation.
I'm old and most recently have run most of my training base miles at ~9:30. Putting on the Endorphin Speed 2s I immediately shaved 15-25 seconds per mile at the same perceived exertion. If I push at all I drop down to 9:00 pace. For old timers like me that sort of gain in pace versus effort is seriously re-energizing.
I'm surprised to hear that young speedsters don't get more 'bounce' from these super shoes.
If you compare the super shoes to a pair of daily trainers, then you’re going to see a huge improvement in speed.
However, that’s not a fair comparison.
“Speedsters” are comparing the performance benefits of the super shoes with standard racing flats - in races.
Racing flats have always given people a performance boost over daily trainers. The question is whether that boost is enlarged with the new super shoes.
no
Right, so maybe 2-3%, if you are a high responder.
Yes, that's how percentages generally work.
Same training. All paces just became faster when people switched to the shoes
It did not improve when I wore the Nike Next %. I did not PR from my previous fastest time in a regular racing flat. But then I ran another 10K in the adidas Adios Pro and was able to improve my time by about 45 seconds.
Now, it'll be interesting to see your time, next time you race that course and wear something else but a super shoe.
I ran two races, 1 year apart, same course. I had way shakier training for the 2nd race, and was a solid 10 lbs heavier. I ran 15:32 for 5k in the first race. I ran 15:13 the next year. I finished in the same spot (7th), and every person in the top 10 the second year was wearing them. Pretty much all times were about that much faster or more, multiple guys from year 1 were there in year 2. I've since always assumed 6 seconds per mile for your pretty good local guy.
A additional data point FWIW, I ran the same 5K course last week and last night. Last week in 2018 Vaporflies and last night in 2021 Vaporfly Nexts. Last night's time was 27 seconds faster and not sure how much fitness I gained in 7 days, training each week was similar.
Maybe go to the treadmill. do a variety of intervals (2x. 1 with super shoe, and the next without. by setting the speed and grade you have a controlled study. Slap on a heart rate monitor and and you have all of the tools. If you have as a 6min mile at 1% with a HR of 141bpm, then the same protocol, except you change the shoes……and the carbon shoes yield a lower heart rate, then you can figure how much faster
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these