College: Running or Academics

Focus on academics. Look into club/road options for running. Avoiding debt and attending a well-regarded academic program are much more important for you in the short to medium term. If you run dramatically faster your senior year, maybe you'll get into walk-on territory. It can't hurt to ask.

Academics are most important. That's why you go to university.

People who push for academics were not good enough to run for a team, or at the very least just don't understand how great a team environment can be.

If competition and running is important, go to a school you can run for. If you can get academic aid at Madison, I imagine you can get something similar at Milwaukee or Green Bay. 9:30 would make those teams. Maybe you would get you a books scholarship or a bit more athletically, as well.

School is important, but for the most part what you study is more important than where... especially when deciding between state schools.

When I was in college I did not intend to coach or stay involved in sports (it just happened after I flamed out of my initial career). But, even though I was not aiming for a long term athletics career, collegiate track was more formative and influential than any instructor/academic course that I took.

OP got into UW-Madison in engineering and is more academically inclined than you are like to have been.

Go to Madison, run for their club team and get the right education.

He probably is (I had good grades and average test scores)..but my high school running opened a lot of doors for me to attend some great Universities. I attended a prestigious one and here is what I found (both as a coach and former student athlete):

Even if you attend a renowned University your choice of degree can really limit you. But, be it small or major state school, or little liberal arts or Ivy League, it does not seem to matter much 10 years out of school. The engineering, business and pre med majors, regardless of institution, do very well (make good money and enjoy themselves). History, humanities and PE majors are not doomed to failure but better have a good plan for what they want to do after school.

Running collegiate is education in and of itself. You learn to work within a diverse (sometimes international) group of people. You have to rise to a very high level of competition. You make life long relationships, and more that a few opportunities come along because of collegiate athletic experience, for many people.

How are you getting it mostly paid for? My son declined entrance to Wisconsin due to cost. He had a 4.0 and 35 ACT.

People who are against academics are not earning $200k per year and did not have a 35ACT.

I am not against academics; what I am saying is running in college is formative and educational and it's value for those who put their all into it should not be understated.

Academic success can be achieved anywhere. If you get a 3.5 GPA and a Civil Engineering degree it is not going to matter where you went to school. The jobs are out there.

Where do you see yourself at age 25? Working and establishing the start of a good career? Making a living as a professional runner?

Academics and being as debt free as possible are your priority. Look at that first. If you can run at a smaller school and get the same education/professional contacts, then that becomes a fine option. I got a lot out of my collegiate running experience at a small school but much of what people are claiming about teamwork, diversity, etc. from running college track/XC is very overrated. If you are already running 9:30 for two miles and are well liked on your HS team, then you already possess good work ethic and soft skills compared to most of your peers.

In any event, being able to compete at a high level will be mostly over by the time you reach 28-30. What you do for work and to set yourself up for retirement in 40 years is what you should prioritize.

Dude get a degree as quickly and cheaply as you can and good fvcking luck. Running is for the birds. Get that degree and get the fvck out of there. God speed.

University of Wisconsin running club got 13th at NIRCA nationals in cross country this past year, so pretty good but not amazing club team. Their top 5 were 26:16-27:16, so you'd probably be pretty competitive.

You are mistaken. That will get you a job at McDonalds unless that 3.5 was at MIT. You obviously are not close to any recent grads. I know several who have engineering degrees from good schools who have not been able to find a job. They have been rejected by dozens without getting an interview. It seems that most announcements are really for phantom jobs. I know several UW engineering grads who started at much lower pay than they anticipated.

OP, help me out here: Does "incoming high school senior" mean you have just completed your junior year of high school? Or your senior year?

If you've just finished your junior year and are an excellent academic student, I'd suggest you look at Cornell University, which has an outstanding engineering school and generally, like other Ivies, offers very good need-based financial aid. Don't know (either way) whether a 9:30 could crack their lineup, but of course you'd have another HS year to improve, and a very solid senior cross-country season could help you with admissions (at Cornell and elsewhere).

OTOH if "incoming high school senior" means you're finishing your senior year now, then I don't have much to suggest. It would be difficult to find a worthwhile academic college that would admit someone who applied in June.

In any case, good luck!

I know what you mean, but MIT uses a 5.0 GPA scale. A 3.5 GPA there is like a 2.5 at a school with a normal grading system.

Sorry, I didn’t phrase that the best. I just finished my junior year and will be a senior this fall. I have a 4.0 unweighted gpa and 33 ACT. Would Cornell accept someone with no AP’s?

In-state they have the Bucky Promise which covers tuition for low income students, along with a few other things. Also, I am in line to get a decent scholarship from my high school(10k) but only in-state.

As a white guy, with that ACT, your best bet at an Ivy is to run a good deal faster. That academic profile can get in, if you are a recruited athlete, but need to be at least 9:20 by indoor.

And I can only imagine most of these doom and gloom guys didn't run in college. I've spent most of my coaching career at a "directional U" with an engineering and health science focus. Our grads, from the past decade have done well for themselves (financially and otherwise) whatever these guys may say.

Run fast, make connections, and study/work hard in college and things will work out. People who reduce their identities to things like where they went to school are often too image obsessed.

I don't know. Not sure that APs would matter to an engineering school, as long as you were taking the strongest math (and science, maybe?) courses that your school had to offer. But again, I really don't know and someone who's gone through the process more recently might be able to give more accurate information. (Full disclosure: My high school didn't even offer any APs, but my grades and test scores were very high and I got in everywhere as a STEM, but not engineering, major.)

In any case I think your GPA and ACT would be right in Cornell's wheelhouse and would probably match what a number of their athletes did in high school. I'm assuming that an unweighted 4.0 would put you at, or very near, the top of your class? Plus there's always the chance to take the ACT again (and/or the SAT).

If you've looked at engineering schools then you're already aware that Cornell's is very highly regarded, so I won't belabor that point. I took a look at the guys on Cornell's xc roster and your 9:30 matches up with where some of them were as high school seniors--and you have another year to improve! I'd say to definitely contact the Cornell coaches and see what their interest might be--and of course a good summer of preparation and an excellent season of cross this fall would certainly make you a more attractive prospect.

Good luck--please bump this thread periodically and keep us posted!