We all know is Sifan comes in second and breaks the WR then technically it’s Sifans…for biological females. If Niyonsaba comes in first and “breaks the WR” then it’s technically world record for nonbiological females.
Sifan probably also plans on winning and getting the Women's World Record even though this is has been marketed as a World Record Attempt by Niyonsaba
I thought Semenya won a court case to allow her and other Athletes with her disorder to run any distance??
That is incorrect.
In 2015, Semenya got a temporary stay of the rules, which ended up lasting until the summer of 2019 when the court issued their final ruling that said intersex athletes with testes, like Semenya, couldn't run in events from 400-mile without reducing their testosterone to female levels.
But in the 100, 200, and distances from 2,000 - marathon the court didn't make any restrictions on testosterone. Which is why Semenya and Niyonsaba are running 2 miles at Prefontaine.
Could they compete right now in the 400-1 mile if they reduced their testosterone to female levels? Yes, but they won't do it because they aren't any good without male levels of testosterone, so there would be no point.
Would love to know how you're so sure Sifan is more "female" than these athletes? FWIF these are not trans-athletes, choosing their gender, this is the way they were born. So a natural advantage, and how lucky they found their calling!
So two people who produce(d) the same testosterone as an average man, plus a notorious doper at the Pre Classic. Got it.
I’m nitpicking here but no, intersex women don’t produce the same testosterone as the average man. It’s in between the levels of women and men. A lot more than ur average XX woman but not at all the average man’s.
Since then, the IOC has dropped the T limits for males seeking eligibility in women's sports altogether. Now the IOC's official position is that neither XY DSD adults nor normally-developed males who now claim to have opposite-sex (or no sex) gender identities should ever be assumed to have any physical advantages over female competitors because believing that adolescent and adult males have natural advantages over females due to biology is some kind of bigotry. At the same time, the IOC has tried to bow out of all responsibility in these matters by saying that the specific criteria for inclusion of males in the female category should be left up to the governing bodies of each sport to decide for themselves.
This is an issue that should be left up to real women worldwide to decide.
I have no objection to such high testosterone males competing in their own divisions in some special events for themselves, for example in the Special Olympics, but they have no business being entered in women's events.
Because they aren't women, they aren't actually competing except with each other anyway, so they should have their own events to compete in, and perhaps their own governing body, that is apart from and has nothing to do with women nor women's events.
Women have had to fight for the right to vote. Now we have to fight for the right to be able to compete with each other.
So two people who produce(d) the same testosterone as an average man, plus a notorious doper at the Pre Classic. Got it.
I’m nitpicking here but no, intersex women don’t produce the same testosterone as the average man. It’s in between the levels of women and men. A lot more than ur average XX woman but not at all the average man’s.
You are totally wrong. The normal male range of testosterone is 7 to 29. Normal for females is less than 2.
All the intersex athletes that were top middle distance runners had testosterone over 10, which is why they had to take medication up until 2015 in order to reduce their testosterone below 10. (10 was the max allowed back then. Now the allowable max is 5.)
They weren't competitive with world class women when they had to go below 10, so that's why none of them have even tried to reduce their testosterone below 5, because then they would be even less competitive.
Would love to know how you're so sure Sifan is more "female" than these athletes? FWIF these are not trans-athletes, choosing their gender, this is the way they were born. So a natural advantage, and how lucky they found their calling!
It's known for sure that Sifan is "more female" than Niyonsaba and Semenya because all athletes in elite international competition in both the women's and men's divisions are subject to anti-doping regulations that require them to get their urine and blood tested for PEDs including testosterone and other androgens.
These tests easily tell which athletes are female with ovaries and which athletes are male with testes because there is no overlap between the natural testosterone levels of those two groups. Using the standards WA goes by, adolescent and adult athletes with testes normally have endogenous T levels ranging from 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L; and adolescent and adult athletes with ovaries normally have endogenous T levels from 0.02 to 1.68 nmol/L.
When athletes competing in women's events are found to have T levels above the normal female range but below the normal male range, they are immediately made to taken a pregnancy test. If it turns out they are not pregnant, and their T appears to be natural, they will be advised they are in urgent need of further medical investigation for a health condition like PCOS, CAH or a tumor. If their elevated T is above the range typically found in females and there's suspicion it's external in origin, they will be investigated for doping violations.
However, when athletes competing in international women's events are found to have apparently natural T levels either in the normal male range or far higher than the normal range even for females with hyperandrogenism due to female-specific health conditions, they are not given pregnancy tests. Nor are they advised that they urgently need to get checked out for other female health condition like PCOS, CAH or cancer. Instead, such athletes are suspected to be XY DSD athletes with testes - and they are thus given further testing to establish that this is indeed the case.
In 2021, when the newcomers Mboma and Masilingi started running in international women's events regulated by WA and they sought eligibility to compete in women's races at the upcoming Tokyo Olympics, the two teenagers became subject to WA and WADA rules. As a result, they underwent the standard testing for PEDs, and did so under WA oversight. It's because their testosterone levels were found not to be in the normal female range, or anywhere close to the female range, that WA medical officers concluded they were most likely XY with disorders of male sex development and had them undergo further testing to confirm this.
But according to experts in this area such as sports scientist Ross Tucker, in the case of XY DSD athletes like Semenya, Niyonsaba, Mboma and Masilingi, their testosterone levels as revealed by standard WADA and WA testing are only part of the story. There are many other physical signs apart from T levels - and which don't require chromosome testing, abdominal scans, endocrinology/metabolism workups or analysis of genes - that serve as reliable "tells" that these athletes are males with disorders of male sex development, not "females with naturally high testosterone" the way they are inaccurately described in the media.
What are the “reliable tells” that indicate these athletes are males with disorders of male sex development?
Do you think Mboma had to undergo an abdominal ultrasound or scan to confirm the presence of internal testes?
Lastly, do males with these disorders tend to have external genitalia that makes it easy for doctors/midwives/parents to assign “female” at birth? Does it become obvious to the individual as she goes through puberty that there is a disorder, from absence of menstruation to appearance of the vulva? Thanks.
But if Semenya wasn't famous, and the average Joe or Jane saw Semenya out and about in the world, either alone or with Semenya's wife and their two kids, no one would look twice at Semenya
"their two kids."
If there ever was a major clue, that is it. Everyone knows that he's not a woman. This travesty against women and women's competitions needs to be stopped right away.
Is this Hassan’s opener ? It will definitely be a fast race, she will like push hard from the gun to run the kick out of Niyonsaba. I imagine Semenya will be a nonfactor. She hasn’t been able to translate her success to longer distances as well as Niyonsaba.
I cannot see Semenya finishing top 6. Hassan over Niyonsaba if she is any type of form. Koko and Beatrice Chebet next two.